General Chat

A couple of extracts from an article in the Guardian, and if the information in the article is is true, I for one, think that the Electoral Commission should take a close look at, what could possibly be, the misuse of taxpayers money to fund political propaganda, by the Conservative Government, to persuade voters to vote for them in the run up to a general election - the article is very interesting, see the link below.

Extracts from the artiicle:-

Experts say Treasury’s definition of welfare, to be detailed in tax transparency statements, inflates spending total by 40%

Critics believe plans by George Osborne to make a further £12bn in benefit cuts would have been set back if it was revealed that payments to the unemployed represent only 3% of welfare spending.

Now experts are drawing attention not only to the lack of differentiation in the welfare chunk of spending but also to the inclusion of substantial elements of spending that would not normally be considered welfare, notably personal social services and public sector pensions.

The Treasury said: “The headings in our tax summaries are based on internationally recognised (UN) definitions.” But in a briefing note published on Tuesday, the Institute for Fiscal Studies detailed how the welfare total included £28.5bn of “personal social services”.

“This is a number that in many analyses one would want to report separately from other welfare spending,” the IFS said. “Unlike other elements of ‘social protection’ it is not a cash transfer payment and in many ways has more in common with spending on health than spending on social security benefits.

“Another £20bn of the spending counted under welfare is pensions to older people other than state pensions. That includes spending on public sector pensions – to retired nurses, soldiers and so on. This is not spending that would normally be classed as welfare.”

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/04/welfare-tax-statements-prime-minister-pension

Well then if the 3 years are up lets let all the politicians get away with it. Let's tell the judges in the courts to let people go on the same reasons if a person is before them for fraud, it will make so much more room in our jails.

I think it's a good idea. People are just focussing on where the money is spent, but the statements relate expenditure to tax that you have paid as an individual. Too many folk forget that someone 'pays' for these things and it isn't the govt's own bottomless pit. Too often those on the receiving end of what is paid and that don't pay anything in forget who really pays their money.

You can also opt out of receiving future statements if you want so it's down to personal choice and I don't have a problem with that.

The Statute of Limitations requires significant documents to be retained for six years.
HMRC only reqiure them to be kept for three years, which I think is insufficient.

Surely we now have to trust this government as the Chancellor says they are embarking on a revolution in transparency :-0

Wait a moment, I think I can hear a band playing - And believe it if you like ;-)

I don't trust a gov that does that.

TheBlackKnight - the House of Commons authorities are sayin they were obliged to destroy the records after "three years" of being created for data protection reasons, under the provisions of th Data Protection Act, however IPSA, which was set up to administer the reformed expenses system, are saying that it had been advised by the Information Commissioner’s Office to hold all records created under the new regime for at least "seven years" :-S

Not only do they make the rules up as they go along - they move the goal posts to where they will best serve their own interests :-|

This a waste of taxpayers money and HMRC resources. It does not show how much is spent on each department that make up the welfare payments. They keep banging on about unemployment but it's cost them very little against other department says the BBC news reporter.
I think this gov should be removed as they can't do the job properly & make one conveniant error after another like the MPs to escape expenses investigations after paperwork destroyed by Parliament
So the tax payer pays yet again for another error
Just my view though.

I am sceptical anyway how are we to know how the statistics have been complied .

It easy to make things look the way you want :-(

Four of the areas of government spending that are regularly in the spotlight are - Welfare Benefits, the NHS, Overseas Aid, and the amount the UK contributes to the EU Budget.

Interesting that they list the areas of expenditure from highest to the lowest, in the sample letter of how our income tax is spent, they have Welfare Benefits and the NHS as the largest areas of spending at the very top, Overseas Aid and the UK Contribution to the EU Budget are placed at the very bottom - they could have listed them from lowest to highest.

I do not dispute that these may be the largest and lowest areas of spending, however, to pinch the phrase used by RolloTheRed, I think the Chancellor is sailing very close to the wind ;-)

The greater part of govt social expenditure is the old age pension and other payments for people of pensionable age eg pension allowance, housing benefit, bus pass, free TV (75?)

George Osbourne is a one man band who believes in the elimination of JSA, HB and tax credits. He is apparently going to get started with foreign residents using the NI database as a point of reference. He is not on Frau Merkel's Christmas card list. The part of the party which has passed the human being test ( SEE Bladerunner) realises that current Great George St policy will not win next year's election. The rest being replicants do not care they have other means eg TIPP.

Quite what has gone wrong with what used to be the Conservative Party is difficult to fathom but like most bad things it is deeply rooted and may be as difficult to remove as Japanese Hogweed another undesirable foreigner.

It is illegal to use tax revenues and the time of civil servants for party political propaganda. Osbourne is sailing very close to the wind.

Details of the breakdown of government spending is readily available from various sources, and let's not forget, that over recent years, governments have shifted more and more of the tax burden to VAT, custom duties, and other taxes - so where is the breakdown for those taxes we pay ;-)

I suppose the alternative would allow us to remain in sublime ignorance.

Or the Government could utilise the cheap Red Tops to publicise the facts using their well respected accuracy.

This week will see the start of taxpayers receiving letters from HMRC which will detail where their money is spent, these were the promised in an announcement by the Chancellor George Osborne in 2012.

The TUC and others are saying the letters are party political propaganda - whereas the government are saying they are a revolution in transparency.

The letters show, for example, that 24.5% of government spending goes on welfare payments, however, they do not show what percentage of that is allocated to the different areas that make up the welfare benefits bill - unemployment, child benefit, winter fuel allowance, in-work tax credit etc, etc.

Do you need one of these letters, is this a waste of taxpayers money and HMRC resources, or is it just another attempt by government to convince the voter - that the government's plans for further cuts to welfare benefits will be needed after the 2015 General Election?

A revolution in transparency of the workings of government - whatever next :-S