General Chat

ooophs...........Sorry Sylvia................about mix-up over your name and Anns :-) These stories here show not much has changed. People still moving to other countries for a better life.

Shirley ............


surely any children born in England would be British citizens by virtue of being born in the country?

My paternal grandfathers family were German and came to England in the mid 1880, s . They were never British . Grt grandfather was Auguste and grt gran Maria Fahse ( with umlaats over the " a" ) nee Marteus ,grandfather was Frederick and dad was named after him.

Our grandaughter was born in Germany when her father was deployed there for 4 years in the British Army . Daughter was told at the time that technically she would have duel nationaliy German and British and her birth needed to to registered at the British Emabsssy where they would renounce any German connection

Her birth is on the GRO overseas Army indices

Pamela .........


it was me, Sylvia, who had the gt gt uncle go to Russia


I presume he was recruited over there to run a mill ................. he'd been manager of at least 1 cotton mill in Lancashire before he went over there. I have no idea whether there was any connection between the management of the mill in Lancashire and the one in Russia ............ possibly in Petersburg, as one of the children was born there.


He and his wife moved over there between 1871 and 1874 (as shown by the birth place of 2 of the children), and were back in England by 1881, possibly as early as 1877.


My understanding was that quite a few British men worked in Russia .......... don't forget, Brits and Russia were very friendly in those days!! British and Russian royalty were intermingled.

I do sometimes wonder whether they had spent some time in Germany before this ................. the rest of their children are shown as born in England, but several of the boys have Germanic sounding names, not seen elsewhere in this family. Emil, Oscar, Herman.

Interestingly, one of the ones born in Russia was called James .............. a name often found in that family through all generations.



As regards your husband's grandfather ................... many people with Germanic sounding names changed them at the time of WW1 ................ including the Royal family .......... that is when they adopted Windsor as the family name!


Also, many young men lied about their age in order to join up ................ the youngest is believed to have been Sidney Lewis enlisted with the East Surrey Regiment in August 1915, five months after his 12th birthday, and was fighting on the Somme by the age of 13.



This also happened in WW2 ..................... my cousin's husband was taken by his father to the Recruiting Office in 1939, after war had been declared, and his father signed the papers. He was 16 years old ........................... mother went storming down to the Office, but father had signed the papers, and there was nothing she could do.

For Shirley: My husbands grandfather Carl Edvard Peder Iversen Gran......not only changed his name to Charles Henry Grant but added a year to his age to join the Royal Marine Infantry in April 1914. He young and in need of money. No one seemed to check his details........the recruiting officers seem to turn a blind eye. His mother found out what he had done and went to see his Commanding Officer but it made no difference.

For Ann: this is so interesting about your gr gr uncle who went to Russia in 1890. I am doing a bit of reasearch for a lady in Wales..........her gr gr grandparents moved to Russia about 1870........he was an engine driver for Portsmouth Gas Company........but she has no idea what would have sent the family to Russia......do you know why and how your gr gr uncle emigrated.....was it a private emigration or was it for his works. Her ancestors kept in touch till the Russian Revolution. So it's possible she has Russian born relatives. :-D

Ann ...............


maybe the difference is that Shirley's ancestors were born in Germany of German parents, then moved to the UK .................. and assumed, or said, they were British Subjects


whereas mine were British-born parents living in another country when the children were born ........................I'm assuming yours is the same.




Actually, this is the case even today ..............................

our daughter, born in Canada of 2 British-born parents, could at one point have claimed British citizenship. The fact that she now carries a Canadian passport means that she is seen as having "chosen" after the age of, I think, 18 or 21. The fact that we got her a Canadian passport at the age of 12 months did not affect that. It was her decision that had to be made before the age of 21.


She could still now, at over 40, go to Britain and be eligible to work as much as she wants to, without having to get a visa or permission ..................... 2 British-born parents and 4 British-born grandparents :-)


Her cousins, born in Canada of a British-born mother and a Swiss father, all had 3 options :-)

That is what I thought but Shirley seems to have been advised differently Sylvia. I have sort of given up looking, I know most of his life, just can't prove his birth or his Father's death (if he was his father that is!)

Ann ...........

If your gt grandfather's parents were British, then he would be a British subject by virtue of that, even if born in France.


One of my gt gt uncle's went to Russia to be a mill manager around 1890 ............ two of his children were born there, but both describe themselves as "British Subjects"

I have never been able to tie up my Gt Grandfather's birth in France and his being in the Royal Marines. His census records always said he was born in France 'British subject'. He was a tailor in the R Marines according to all paperwork up until he dies in 1911, he lived in the Marine quarters in Gosport. Yet I can find no mention of him as a marine in N Archives and nowhere any mention of his birth. I know the family went to France, or at least they said they did when the children left a school they were at (from the register) and from the workhouse records. But that is all. Now I wonder if he actually was born in France. And/or if he was, was made a British Subject. So thanks for that Shirley, a bit more of the jigsaw.

My grandfather and one of his brothers changed their name from Fahse to Fasey and both joined the British Army in the late 1890's and fought in the Boar war .

Have both their army records. which I got from KEW , and both lied. Said they were
British born in Bradford Yorkshire which is where their youngest brother was born

Couldn't have had to produce birth certs to join up

Lots of porkies told . Their parents and other brothers kept their German name

For Shirley and Annie laurie,
Thanks for these tips.............it's quite likely then.......that my husband's gr grandfather said he "had right to stay" because he married an Enlish women in 1895 ........and never paid to go through the legal process. Their sons added T to the name Gran and became Grant when they all joined up for WW.....made them sound more English.
Best Regards,
Pam Gran

They had to pay to be naturalised and lots of people couldn't afford it

The records would be at the National Archives KEW

But when I looked for naturalisation records for my German ancestors who stated British Subjects on the 1901 census I was told by one of the helper staff there that lots of people thought their foreign ancestors had been naturalised because census said so ,but it depended how the enumerator asked the question!!!

They would ask " do you have the right to be here? " answer Yes so they would put British subject . Didn't always mean how it looked

Mine never took British nationalty :-|

AnnCardiff..................Yeaph.....thanks for this info
Pam :-)

this looks a god site on which to find details

Naturalisation and British citizenship | The National Archives


www.nationalarchives.gov.uk › Records

... requirements necessary for individuals wishing to become British subjects. ... 1509 to 1800, indexes to ... Certificate of Naturalisation granted to a French ...

Hi All,
Can anyone let me know how someone in the 1890's would have set about becoming a British Subject? My husbands gr grandfather arrived from Norway c. 1891 and by 1901 was recorded a British Subject. And how or where can I find the records of this occurance.

regards,
Pam Gran