General Chat

Pat some good ideas there. I do think we are all too ready to be negative about trying anything to solve the problems, thinking about what wouldn't work rather than what would.

On the news it said Civilian Service to help people into work & young people give them something to do. good apprenticeship learn a trade that cant be a bad thing surely .come on the government put your ideas & money were your mouth is :-)

My OH was in an engineering apprenticeship when his National Service became due: however this was delayed until he had finished apprenticeship and was within a couple of days of his 21st birthday.

Over the years listening to his friends etc., all saying it was the best thing and should be brought back.

You would need more people and premises but as youngsters would be still at home it would be a lot cheaper than National Service where you would have to feed, clothe and accommodate them.

The Army Cadets, Sea Scouts and Air Training Corps already have both sexes in and have for quite a long time. It may also give full time employment to ex service people.

I do know the uniform comes free with joining the Air Training Corps and I suspect the Army Cadets. Both my children (son and daughter) joined the ATC, I in 1987 the other in 1990. They flew in gliders and single engine planes, learned to shoot, took part in local parades, took part in sports against other ATC. They went camping, had holidays on RAF camps (son went to Gibralter). Walked miles together and learnt to forage from the land. They learnt first aid and team work, they took part in local community projects and when the local Royal Air Force Association lost their meeting place they went and helped decorate a small supermarket that had been revamped to a bar downstairs and a large meeting hall upstairs.

Son went from one who was very casual about what he dressed in to pressing his ATC trousers for every meeting and there were 2 a week. :-)

There would be no subs as that's unfair as it would be compulsory, it would cost but if the vandalism and anti social behaviour dropped a lot of the money would be saved on policing/court costs and replacing or cleaning damaged property.

A civilian group could have arm bands or for example black trousers and a white shirt so very little cost. Youngster could be taken on holiday, subsidised or free according to capabilities to pay. Something like youth hosteling would be ideal. I think most of the costs would over the years be far less than you would expect if the children became good citizens and behave well because they learnt at a early age we are a community and should be responsible to each other for our actions. Might also help with the obesity problem.

Pat those are voluntary led organisations. You would need thousands more volunteers willing to give up a couple of nights a week to lead them plus you'd need more premises to hold the Army Cadets, Sea Scouts and Air Training Corps.

As we now have equality, you would have to provide the same for the girls as the boys and I don't know how you force all the parents to pay the subs, buy the uniforms and pay for everything else this entails.

Some good points there & Ideas :-)

No to National Service but if something is required why not let them all be members of the already formed Army Cadets, Sea Scouts, Air Training Corps or if non military unit was required a purely civilian corps and have them all do community work, first aid etc and training for emergencies such as flooding. They should do at least a set number of hours per year until 18. I would suggest start about 12 or 13. This would not then conflict with their education or training as National Service did.

Non attendance would go against them when claiming benefits, going to university or training for jobs.

There a lot of issues relating to Armed forces .our government need to have a long look at the young vulnerable on the streets .parents for a start should be there for them .we cant right all the wrongs .Rollo says about apprenticeship & teaching trades .there are far to many admin staff in all places of work .I feel for ex Armed forces who have fought for our country .money isn't going to the right people ..Hope something will be done by the powers that be :-) our children need to know they are valued,& taught to have respect !!

Rollo

please read my words, i said "Something similar", not National Service!

and yes, as the mother of 4 children, 7 grandchildren and 2 great grandchildren i am aware of the problems young people are having today.
This is a never ending circle at the moment, youngsters have not been brought up in a working atmosphere, all they know is handouts and self interest, and so they have children that are caught up in the same circle...
It needs to be broken in the interest of the country, and i am only talking about youngsters who are not already skilled or in further education.

I fail to see how teaching thugs who are out of control how to kill people will be of benefit to society :-0

For many ex-service men homelessness and substance dependance is all they end up with after leaving. After years of being told what to do and when to do it, they find being left to their own devices impossible to cope with.

So dear Stella you are probably one of those who believe in the deficit myth.

How would you find funding for putting tens of thousands of young people into some kind of compulsory "National Service" ?

How would you force people to participate if they failed to turn up or dropped out? Bring in the Red Tops ? Cancel already nugatory benefits?

How would you recruit staff ? The armed forces would for sure have zero interest.

Maybe they could all work for the tabloids pressing door bells and scarpering down the street.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV6b0XSAiUY

Well, it could teach them self respect and respect for others, a general education program to be included because where i live , many of the youngsters still cannot read or write and have a very low self esteem .. thus they gather together on street corners
drinking and taking drugs. If they were removed from this environment and put into a regime of daily tasks, exercise,sport and self worth they might well then be able to go back into the world and then learn a skill.
Just my opinion :-)

Stella there is nothing at all which any kind of quasi national service could achieve for young unskilled people.

What they need are real apprenticeships rather than 6-26 week courses which are not taken seriously by employers.

When it is good it can be very very good but far too often state sector education especially 4-11 is woeful. The result is half literate and innumerate people who could not grasp an apprenticeship even if offered.

More than anything the UK needs much better state education not "national service for neats". The funding for this is being reduced not improved.

Until this is done large scale immigration from Europe will go on. The lurid picture painted by UKIP and the press of nomadic gypsies living off roast swan is wildly inaccurate.

Not only are most European immigrants working skilled their home countries would like them to return. For instance the London cross-rail project employs large numbers of skilled construction workers from Europe. Fenland farmers employ highly skilled agricultural technicians from Europe as well as crop pickers and such. Romania is a fertile recruitment area for IT security expertise. And so on.

That the Daily Mail, Express, C4 and the DailyBlue regularly publish tosh is regrettable. While some of it has a kind of prurient entertainment value (Benefits Street, Xpress headlines) it is sad if people start believing such nonsense. It is the seedbed of fascism.

Maybe something similar could be introduced for those youngsters who are not in education and not honestly job seeking.

Even 12 months might change their lives around for the better, rather than leaving school and going straight on benefits for the rest of their lives, which many do especially when there is no work ethic in the family.

Modern armed forces do not need large numbers of unskilled men and women all of whom have to be trained, housed, fed and found something useful to do other than cleaning the yard with a toothbrush, painting coal white and so on.

The short service commission for junior officers (Lt/Captain) and WO1s has been around for ages and is what Harry talking about not bringing back 1950s style enlistment.

The disadvantage of joining the armed forces to "learn a trade" is that civvie street has surprisingly few openings for those skilled in the arts of death. Under the new govt this may change of course.

The major failing of the UK economy is the lack of of highly skilled workers which has been caused by (a) the demise of craft apprenticeships brought about by Thatcher and (b) Labour's attempt to replace them with university degrees. Result - lots of immigration, unskilled, unemployed Brits.

"National service" of any sort would do nothing to change this though it might make NEAT numbers look better and drive up the deficit a bit more...

It is nice to see the politicians pay lip service to apprenticeships but that is all it is. They have in mind 6-26 weeks rather than the 4-7 years of a real apprenticeship. For instance Tesco take 6 weeks to train what they call a "cutter" whereas a true butcher's apprenticeship is rather longer.

He was on the news this Morning saying he met people when he was serving & some would have been lost without being in the forces .it made them into good people & gave them a future ,The Government have cut back on the services .which I find all wrong .what can be done to help young people .a big question ??

Well for it to be compulsary seems to be a bit out of date now as so many young folks go on to university and college now at aged 18

When my brother had to do his national service the school leaving age was 15 so most lads had then gone out to work

Same too for my hubby . He left school at aged 15 and started learning a trade at piano renovating .he was in a sort of apprenticeship but working in a small family firm

His national service interrupted this and he was persuaded to sign on for 8 years in the RAF 3 years service and 5 years as a reservist When he came home the piano trade had deteriorated as folks were getting rid of pianos rather than having them repaired so at 21 he had to start all over again and at a disadvantage because he had lost 3 years work experience

Can see that for some jobless youngsters now the forces could be a way but then they can always sign up themselves . But haven't the numbers of forces been cut down anyway ???

Prince Harry has said national service should be there for young people ? Army Helped Him .he is leaving after 10years service .what do you think is it the answer to help young people or not . :-)