General Chat

Well, if the public wanting wrongdoers to be brought to justice is a witch hunt, what is the destruction of a child's innocence, the constant denial of their accusations, then the deliberate hiding/destroying of evidence called?

How is it a witch hunt?

I think you have to guard against a witch hunt, which all of l this is now getting overtones of.

everybody deserves Justice dead or alive :-( :-(

Challenge the culture of impunity.

That's what I said Joy but those that are speaking up are being threatened. Nothing has changed.

The previous evidence has to be located, if not destroyed, and presented to each of the enquiries.

'lost' papers have been found after FOI requests for cabinet papers in the archives but those requesting said papers have to have more information re the dates, which historically, is difficult.

Also don't forget that some victims have committed suicide and it's their families that are trying to get justice, in many cases, decades later.

Does anybody remember the Geoffrey Archer trial ?

"Is she elegant, is she fragrant etc?"

And what the bloody hell has what Mary Archer smells like got to do with anything?

They are often advised to bring things into the open by events that have or are taking place in their life for which they are reciving professional help for and often its at this time by frank discussions can be found the stem of their deep rooted problems,,,

victims find many ways to dis-associate themselves from the root cause,and it can take a very long time under guidence to open up and tell their story.,,,,,,in the mean time they have brushed and pushed it aside to almost forgetting it happend but its ugly head rears up at times when it causes distruption in a persons life.........ans still they cant tell anyone the true cause.

In that case
maybe anybody involved in a cover up
should also be taken to court for perverting the course of justice :-(



Welcome back Sue :-D :-D :-D

I have damn well paid to renew in order to answer on this thread without help of kind friends.

Accusations WERE made whilst these abusers were alive. FOI requests of government papers have proved that if you don't believe there were sworn statements given to police in the past and promptly buried.

Ben Fellows knew he would be arrested after his allegations against Ken Clarke and so said so publicly.

He was found NOT GUILTY of attempting to pervert the course of justice. Where does that leave Mr. Clarke? He's still alive and surely will be hoping that the investigators will be persuaded not to pursue him. Both Fellows and Clarke cannot be telling the truth and Fellows was found to be truthful. Make of that what you will.

There are hundreds of high profile names in the mix, yes many are dead, but many are still alive and should face vigorous questioning. Those people that facilitated the procurement of children should also face prosecution together with those that covered up/destroyed/ignored evidence and statements.

Our security services had the means and persuasive tactics, otherwise known as threats, to stifle cases and issue D notices at will.

So it's not all about 'dead' people who cannot respond to allegations it's the living who are still being protected too.

I do too. I suppose it's to knock their memory off a pedestal. I just can't think how you'd ever prove it without the evidence of a lot of people, as in the Saville case, and other show bis folk. In the case of dead establishment people, I wouldn't think many in the know would come forward as they risk being seen as an accomplice and find themselves under scrutiny.

I think they make claims, sometimes not for the first time, when they feel safe to do so and when there is a chance they might be believed.

I do find it strange people
wait till somebody is dead before making claims against them :-( :-(

My SIL, many moons ago worked in a senior position inside the NHS, seeing and hearing many practices that appalled her. She had previously spent many years as a QA, but not the 20 years that the army then required for pension purposes, so hadn't come up through the ranks of the NHS. She reported what she felt to be failings in the system to her superiors only to be told that if she valued her job/pension she'd better keep quiet. What a dilemma? The staff she directly worked with started a campaign of non cooperation as well as a wall of silence, making her life a misery and escalating to an extent that she eventually took a period of sick leave culminating in her taking early retirement (with that clause!!) She was in fact driven out, much to the delight of her colleagues who sent her a card to that effect. Should she have taken it further? Who knows, it wasn't me so I can't judge or say. But maybe that young policeman found himself in a similar situation all those years ago? However, as these investigations have been going on for so long, I do feel that he could have come forward before now without jeopardizing his career.

I agree with AnnCardiff. We all know that innocent or guilty, Ted Heath can't be brought to justice. However, those in the police or government or any other authority who decided to brush the allegations under the carpet all those years ago will probably not have changed their character and could well be hiding other facts or abuse - and that it why the investigation is well worth it - as it could help make a "brighter future" for victims of abuse today - which I'm sure every one of us wants.

Kath. x

I agree, Sharron.
There must have been 'facilitators', who may still be facilitating for current perverts.

I doubt Edward Heath would have operated alone, there would have been others who were much younger, involved and they may well still be preying upon those very missing persons who need to be traced.

Thank you, Wendy, for posting, thank Sue for sharing her words of wisdom. <3 <3

:-) Ann

thanks Wend - I just knew Sue would put it better than I ever could :-)