General Chat

I am more than a,little disappointed that some of the comments on this thread are becoming personal .....................

it is a very interesting discussion, and there is no need to be personal about others' experiences.


We all have our own experiences of the English system ............... I could add my experiences with the US and Canadian systems but many of would not find that interesting, or of use.


I do know the effect that the changeover from Grammar School to Comprehensive had on one of my 3 nieces.

They lived in the Manchester area. The two elder ones passed the 11+ and went to the Grammar School for their area. The younger one was 5 years younger, and the school had become Comprehensive by the time she was ready to move up from the Junior School. Her middle sister was still at the school, and the parents were told that it was no longer the Comprehensive school that their younger daughter should attend BUT as it was the school the sisters had attended, then the youngest could also go.

Brother and his wife had had excellent experiences with the 2 older girls with good teachers etc etc, so were glad for the younger one to also attend.

Unfortunately, it was not in a very salubrous area of the city, in fact, it was probably in one of the worst areas! So the girls who now attended were not in the least inclined to work ............. or to allow anyone else to work. Plus the teachers, while some good ones remained, could no longer be as effective as they were

My youngest niece was threatened with knives and ordered not to do any school work "or you know what will happen to you"

The most intelligent of the 3 left school at 16 with no qualifications at all.


OK ............. so maybe my brother and his wife should have moved her to another school ......... except she didn't tell them the worst of what happened, and they didn't know how to work the system.

been thinking Errol, after reading the horrendous statistics you've quoted about Cardiff, why you ever visited her in the first place?

I attended a mixed school, and taught in an all girls school


What going to a mixed school taught me was that girls could just as clever, if not more so, than boys ................ girls came first in sciences just as often as the boys did. And conversely, boys could come top in arts subjects just as often as the girls did.

The school I taught at had a brother school ..... and many of the girls fell for the boys line that boys were better than girls at sciences.

I spent a lot of time convincing 6th formers that they were just as clever as the boys!

SylviaInCanada I couldn't agree more.

Employers are already doing things like checking out people's faceache accounts, Twitter etc etc.

It is a show made purely for entertainment and viewing figures - as the previous series set in Yorkshire and Essex have demonstrated.

I'm afraid that I was rather horrified to hear that there was such a TV programme

............... I don't think even the US with its huge reliance on Reality TV has yet exploited children in school .......

....... and exploitation is what Reality TV is all about.

I wonder how much the school, the Cardiff Education Board, the Principal, the teachers and the children were paid?

I wonder how much effect the programme will have on the children in future years when they try to get jobs, and some one Googles them and says "Oh YOU were in THAT show".

If they gave a good showing then fine, if not ............. that could mean a lost job.

mine was an all girls grammar school as well

Oh I have nothing but respect for dedicated people who choose a career in catering, after all I managed the conferences and functions at a 75 bed hotel for 9 years. Competent and friendly staff can make all the difference to a guest's experience.

It's also jolly hard work and long hours plus your cheeks ache after smiling at people for many hours.

There is a difference between catering as a career choice and 'just a job'.

BTW I attended an all girls Grammar, I don't know whether I missed out...lolol

AnnG .............


re your experience being the youngest in the class ...........

My brother would have been in your shoes. His birthday was in August, the Junior School entered him for the 11+ when he was only 10 but told him he would have a second chance the following year if he failed. He did no work for the exam, so failed ................ then the school forgot to enter him for the exam the following year.

So, he had to stay at the secondary school, which in his case was part of the CofE Church School that we both attended from Infants on.

He left school at the age of 14 in 1943, later told me he walked the streets for about 6 weeks before getting a job as an apprentice draughtsman. He married at the age of 21, had 2 children by 23, and was STILL attending Night School to get all the qualifications he could. He became a top-flight draughtsman who commanded a very high salary.

He was brighter than I was, but his experience made me work hard.

I won't be watching, I hate that type of reality programme.

Reading the last few posts I wonder if we (teachers) are raising children's expectations unrealistically. Are we teaching them that working in a fast food place, supermarket or a pub isn't a "proper" job?

I worked in all three in my school/student days and didn't particularly enjoy the experience so that made me a bit more determined to get the A levels I needed.

However, I know plenty of people with jobs in supermarkets etc and they are very happy working there. Good friends and customer discount!

Not everyone is cut out for a job requiring "brainwork". Some people's skills lie elsewhere and some are happy with a mundane job that pays the bills.

Some people, like Ann's grandson find their niches in surprising places and do very well, turning a job into a career.

The emphasis on tests and exams currently forced onto schools may make some children feel inadequate.

Re working in bars and restaurants ..........

............. for a professional, willing to work at their "trade" and become truly "professional", these can be amongst the most high-paying jobs over here, when you add tips to the base salary.

I do note that such jobs fit into minimum wage categories in this country, which I know does not apply everywhere.

supercrutch ...........

I do wholeheartedly agree with your post of 16:07

I went to a Grammar School in a Lancashire mill town in the 1950s ............... yes, we had to pass the 11 plus, and yes, we were coached in how to pass that exam!

The school then sorted its students into 4 levels. I disgusted the Deputy Headmistress because I had been put into the A stream, didn't do as well as expected so was dropped into the B stream at the end of the first year .............. and I was happy about it instead of being upset! She didn't know that the I did not want to do the Latin that A streamers had to do from 2nd year on, and was very happy to do the German that we did in the B and C streams.

Then there was also the 13+ exam for the late developers who had failed the 11+ and gone to the Secondary School ......... I think that came in during the late 1950s or early 1960s.

I'm not sure what happened to AnnG ............... both the school I went to and the school where I taught in the mid-1960s had a D stream, where the girls did cookery, sewing, art, bookkeeping and shorthand typing, as well as French, English, Math, and a science. The boys could do woodwork, metal work, and art, and the academic subjects. The Northern Universities Board had exams in the "non-academic" subjects, and I know several girls who graduated from my school with GCEs in shorthand and typing and went straight into well-paying jobs at the age of 16.

It seems to me that there is more forcing a child into a mould these days than there was back then.

in that case we can rest easy in the knowledge you will never be visiting then

Sue our second Grandson went to Uni, opted out of the teaching career he was set on at first in the second year (I haven't a clue what his degree is in). He is working in the Lakeland restaurant in the Lake District, he couldn't find any other work. However, within 18 months he is now a supervisor and he enjoys his job so that must count for something I suppose.

Of course it will be entertaining - that is the whole point of "shows" like this - and it will have more than its fair share of amusing scenes.

I have not seen any previews of the new series so I cannot say that it is a programme about "kids being failed in school".
Is that what it is about?

"others work behind bars because that's the only occupation they are suited to, or the only job they can get" - what a very dim and insulting view you have of a group of (usually) professionals who work extremely hard and I have a great deal of admiration for.

I wonder if there is a connection between education standards in Cardiff and the fact that it is the crime hotspot of Wales.

Of the top 20 crime hotspot post codes in Wales, an astonishing 15 are in Cardiff.

It also has the dubious boast of being home to the post code with the highest number of violent and sexual offences.

EDIT I totally agree supercrutch - I would never comment on a place or topic I know absolutely nothing about. Nor would I base it on dry or out of date statistics.

No Errol I am not referring to Cardiff at all :-D

Sadly a lot of people spout on about areas they know nothing about other than reading dry (out of date) statistics which do not represent the reality.

I wouldn't dream of voicing an opinion on any other great city (apart from London) because my knowledge would be lacking and probably skewed by media reports.

sadly there are a lot of bars in every big city and every bar needs bar staff - usually youngsters making a bob or two towards their uni fees - others work behind bars because that's the only occupation they are suited to, or the only job they can get

how you can describe Educating Cardiff as being entertaining and amusing I cannot fathom - how could anyone with any values at all take pleasure in seeing kids being failed in school

I am not quite sure what it has to do with barwork and whether you are making reference to just Cardiff (there are an awful lot of bars there - some quite good with highly qualified staff), but I would be very interested indeed to see the stats you are basing this on - should make fascinating reading and comparison.
Do the stats break down by area or just generally across Wales?

The trouble with the old system of grammar/High schools was that entryw as gained by taking the 'scholarship'( in my time), then the eleven plus. I passed, for some reason I believe extra points were awarded for those taking it under a certain age. I went to High school when I had been eleven years old for less than a month. Too young. I had been bright and done well at primary. I didn't thrive at High school, I was too young to keep up with those older than me, (I was also young for my age, a mouse, timid) I invariably slipped under the radar. I obtained two O levels. (Pass or fail in my day). After I left school, later on, in my 20s/30s I took and passed three more O levels and two A levels (One at grade A) and one economics GCSE. High school/grammar schools don't suit everyone. It would have been far better for me if I had gone to secondary school and been taught shorthand typing.

Both our children went to comprehensive schools, both did well at O level/'GCSE and A level. Neither chose to go to Uni. Both have always been in work (in their 50s/late 40s now). Son has a high powered job in life insurance with 500 people working for him, daughter has taken retirement but is contracting, also for life insurance and she has done equally well. Both had good, bad and indifferent teachers but both worked hard. sometimes it is not the school but the parents who have not, from an early age, instilled a work ethic in them.

Well the education provided in general does afford them better jobs than serving behind a bar. Not that there's anything wrong with 20 somethings doing that as they get a great social life.

:-D :-D :-D

I prefer something with a bit more substance - I am not a big fan of these staged documentaries - but I am sure there are those who will find it entertaining and amusing.