General Chat

One died as an infant though -

Deaths Sep 1895 Deaths Sep 1895 Bull William Henry 0 W. Ham 4a 96

Probably the Q3 one, as the death record previously posted gives Jan 28th 1895 as birthdate, as does the naval record.

Births Sep 1895 Bull William Henry W. Ham 4a 82

FreeBMD shows two William Henry Bulls born in West Ham one registered in Q1 and one in Q3.

A bit of extra information from the image of the parish register of Holy Trinity, Barking Road, Canning Town is that William Henry was born on 21st July 1895, they lived at 23 Ascot Street, Canning Town and William John's occupation was Labourer.

Not sure if William Henry's batism has been posted or not:

Name: William Henry Bull
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 2 Aug 1895
Baptism Place: Barking Road, Essex, England
Father: William John Bull
Mother: Louisa Bull
FHL Film Number: 1471966
Reference ID: p 312 rn 2496

As a by the by, is this William Henry Bull as a seaman in the Royal Navy?

First name(s) William Henry
Last name Bull
Service number K20057
Birth year 1895
Birth date 28 Jan 1895<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth place West Ham<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth county Essex
Birth country England
Archive reference ADM 188/907/20057
Record set Royal Navy Seamen 1899-1919
Category Military, armed forces & conflict

His occupation on enlistment was factory labourer.

***This tallies with the 1911 census Maryb posted, with John W. born Reading, and a son William born 1895. West ham, who happens to be a labourer in a sugar works.***


1911 12,Fulton Street Canning Town Victoria docks.
William Bull 1864 reading Berkshire Bricklayers labourer<<<<<<
Ellen 48 says married 20 years?? 3 kids 2 died??
William 1895 West Ham labourer sugar works (could this be William Henry Bull 1895)<<<;

I seem to recall on your ancestry tree there is a picture of WHB as a young man in an open locket, I thought he might have been in naval sailor suit type top.

According to the record image he signed up for 12 yrs in August 1913, he was just under 5ft 4 ins, dark brown hair, blue eyes, fresh complexion, small scar l [eft?] side forehead.

EDIT: His birthdate of 28th Jan 1895 on his naval papers tallies with the birthdate on this death index record:

Name: William Henry Bull
Birth Date: 28 Jan 1895<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Date of Registration: Sep 1970
Age at Death: 75
Registration district: Horsham
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 5h
Page: 1618

????

Marriages Mar 1864
Bull William Henley 3a 625 <<<<<<<<<
Chuter Emma Henley 3a 625 <<<<<<<
Daniels Henry Henley 3a 625
Wheeler Sarah Elizabeth Henley 3a 625

Bit tenuous.

This is the Sandhurst born John W in census 1871 (apologies if It's been posted before, I'm losing track as the thread is getting so long.)

Birth ???

Births Dec 1865 Bull John William Easthampstead 2c 362

Census:

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Couching Street, Watlington, Henley, Oxfordshire, England

William Bull Head - Male 29 1842 - Oxfordshire, England
Emma Bull Wife - Female 33 1838 - Middlesex, England
>>>>>John W Bull Son - Male 5 1866 - Berkshire, England
Stephen Bull Son - Male 3 1868 - Berkshire, England
George Bull Son - Male 0 1871 - Oxfordshire, England

Census image says father William is a BRICKLAYER JOURNEYMAN, born Pyrton. Emma born Brentford Middx, formerly dressmaker, John W and Stephen born Sandhurst, George born Oxon Watlington.

Emma is widowed, and the family have moved to WEST HAM by 1881:


1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Serles Buildings, 3, Denmark Street, West Ham, Essex, England

Emma Bull Head Widow Female 48 1833 - Brentford, Middlesex, England
William Bull Son Single Male 15 1866 Laborer Sandhurst, Berkshire, England <<<<<<<<<<<<
Stephen Bull Son Single Male 13 1868 Scholar Sandhurst, Berkshire, England
George Bull Son Single Male 10 1871 Scholar Watlington, Oxfordshire, England
Emily Bull Daughter Single Female 7 1874 Scholar Watlington, Oxfordshire, England
Arthur Bull Son Single Male 5 1876 Scholar Watlington, Oxfordshire, England

EDIT: have nowrealised Maryb had already posted this plus the 1891. but will leave it here anyway.

That certainly looks a much better fit to the details on the marriage cert to Louisa Mary Lees - I think you may well be on to something there, Maryb.

I think this is the John William Bull born 1864 Sandhurst Berkshire who had dad Willam a bricklayer and brother Stephen.

1911 12,Fulton Street Canning Town Victoria docks.
William Bull 1864 reading Berkshire Bricklayers labourer
Ellen 48 says married 20 years?? 3 kids 2 died??
William 1895 West Ham labourer sugar works (could this be William henry Bull 1895.

1911 21,Wightman Street Victoria Docks
Stephen Bull 1861 Reading Berkshire
Martha wife. 8 children born

My money is still on this being the right family.

Maryb.

Would you update us if you do get the evidence, Leigh, especially as the William born 1858 as John William option has gone out the window if Maryb has found William in 1881, with a different wife who lasts through to at least 1911...

It's just that as far as I can see, maybe I'm wrong, John William does not appear in any census with George Bull and wife Elizabeth Wheeler and their son Samuel or other offspring, he does not appear to have a baptism record as their son, and I'm not sure whether anyone has a confirmed sighting of him in any census, that gives a birth year and location for him.

Does the relative have his birth cert? I can't see what else would actually confirm the sibling connection, unless the birth cert shows John William's parents to be George Bull, carman and Elizabeth Wheeler, not the William Wheeler bricklayer cited on John William's marriage record as his father.

I am waiting to find out from my relative its a bit hard though I live in UK my relative lives in Australia so hopefully soon

But HOW do you know they are brothers, Leigh?

We can find no evidence whatsoever that they were???

What evidence/certs have your relatives go that confirms John William and Samuel are actually brothers, as their marriages indicate different fathers' names and occupations?

There is a William Bull born 1858 St Georges
1881 Diggon Street Mile end
William Bull carpet warehouseman
Mary 1861 Wapping
William Bull under 1
Thomas Clark brother in law Wapping 1858

So Mary Clark married a William Bull her parents were William and Mary,I can't find the married for Bull/Clark

1911 they are still together married 31 years 7 children all alive.

Could this be the same William? son of George and Elizabeth.

Maryb.

lol it got so frustrating for me as well that's why I asked on here at least now I know they were brothers and from what I can gather after his wife Louisa died he remarried but no name or date and he seems to have disappeared after 1900

My thoughts exactly...

Unless John William is the William c1858 (brother to Samuel) , but I haven't had the energy to look into that and see if William c1858 can be traced through the censuses.

So then how can John W Bull who married Louisa M lees have dad William a bricklayer when Samuel's dad was George??

Very strange.

Maryb.

I have had it confirmed today from a family member who has done a family tree and got some certificates John and Samuel were brothers and Samuel married Harriet Budge x

Any luck finding John William Bull 1891 or 1901 with his kids?

Maryb.

My nan was a Bull from mile end Stepney and her dad was George 1863. Will look up my tree tomorrow

Census 1881 shows Geo(rge) and Elizabeth living in Trinity St, so they seem pretty definite as the parents of Samuel. Elizabeth's birthplace is consistently berkshire over several censuses. Again, no sign of a John William in the family; though, as someone else suggested, he might have been the William born 17th Nov 1858, who was part of the batch baptism in 1862.

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census

36, Trinity Street, West Ham, Essex, England<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Geo Bull Head Married Male 58 1823 Labourer Stepney, Middlesex, England
Elizabeth Bull Wife Married Female 58 1823 - Binfield, Berkshire, England
Jessie Maria Bull Daughter Single Female 15 1866 Machinist (Shirt) London, Middlesex, England
Edward Wilks Boarder Single Male 29 1852 Labourer London, Middlesex, England