General Chat

What evidence do you have that your John William Bull had a brother named Samuel?

Is there something that definitely links the two men as siblings, or has someone just guessed they were related?

Even the best of researchers can make mistakes and end up following the wrong tree, and then other researchers can end up copying their work assuming it to be correct, instead of verifying or disproving it by doing their own research.

If Samuel turns out NOT to be the brother of John William, then there is no point in pursuing his parents George Bull, carman, and Elizabeth Wheeler, especially as the marriage details Kense posted show John William's father to be " father William Bull (deceased) bricklayer."

Am getting very confused now I have a famly member who done a lot of research and purchased certificates and have been in contact with her as I know another relative did as well so hopefully we can get some right info thank you for all your help

1871 Watlington Oxfordshire
William Bull born 1841 Oxfordshire Bricklayer/Journeyman
Emma 33 Brantford.
John W 1865 Sandhurst Berkshire
Stephen 1868 Sandhurst
George 1870 Oxfordshire.

1881 West Ham
Emma widow 48 Brentford
William 15 (JOHN W) on 1871 Sandhurst
Stephen 13
George 10
Emily 7 Oxford
Arthur 5 Oxford.

1891 Plaistow East Ham
Emma Buth (Bull)
Stephen 1866 Sandhurst married born 1866
Martha (wife of Stephen)
George
Arthur


Maryb.

The marriage details for the Samuel who married Louisa Budge is as follows:

At Holy Trinity church, Barking Road Canning Town on 25 December 1880 after banns:
Samuel Bull, 21, bachelor, carman, father George Bull, carman.
Harriet Elizabeth Budge, 19, spinster, father William Bodley Budge, joiner.
Witnesses: William B Budge, Jessie M Bull.
The address for both the Bride and Groom is 36 Trinity st.

Thank you ever so much will go and take a look

Marriage after banns at St John's Stratford Aug 15 1897.

John William Bull age 33, bachelor, labourer, of 52 Romford Road, father William Bull (deceased) bricklayer.
Louisa Mary Lees, age 25, spinster, of 52 Romford Road, father Henry William Lees, labourer.
Witnesses J G James, T A Reeve.

Edited: May to Mary

When my gt grandfather married he knocked 6 years off his age, only the census and finding his birth cert proved his age was not what he said, and often people weren't sure themselves.

I've found the details on the SEAX site.
Father was William Bull (deceased) a bricklayer. Johns age was 33.
Full details in a minute.

This is where it gets confusing he used both his first and second name apparently so I have been told and family are convinced he was born 1864 think I am going to have to order a certificate to make sure.

How do you know he was born 1864?
Couldn't he be the William born 1858.

on baptism for his son William Henry Bull 1895 he is down as William John Bull.

Maryb

Bit concerned that there is no sign of John William with the family though - just the Samuel that you mentioned.

You should get his marriage cert to Louisa Lees to confirm name and occupation of his father.

wow thank you for all your help its definitely a lot to look through hopefully will lead me somewhere

Did this William die young?

Name: William George Bull
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 27 Jun 1852
Father's name: George Bull
Mother's name: Elizabeth Bull
Parish or Poor Law Union: Stepney St Dunstan and All Saints
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers
Father George a carman.

Name: Louisa Elizabeth Bull
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 1854
Father's name: George Bull
Mother's name: Elizabeth Bull
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bethnal Green St Matthias
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

Born apl 22 1854.Father George a carman.

???

There is this marriage of a George Bull, carman, to an Elizabeth in 1849:

Name: George Bull - carman
Spouse: Elizabeth Wheeler
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 21 Apr 1849
Parish: St James the Less, Bethnal Green
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: William Bull - salesman
Spouse Father: George Wheeler - lockman
Register Type: Parish Register

Groom is of 29 John St, bride of 27 John St.

The family in census 1861, with some older children of the marriage, the family is mistranscribed as Ball:


1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census

14, Splisby Terrace, St George East, St George-In-The-East, London, England

George Ball Head Married Male 38 1823 Carman Stepney, Middlesex, England
Elizabeth Ball Wife Married Female 38 1823 ... Maker Burghfield, Berkshire, England
Hannah Ball Daughter - Female 10 1851 Scholar Stepney, Middlesex, England
George Ball Son - Male 8 1853 Scholar Oldham, Middlesex, England
James Ball Son - Male 5 1856 Scholar St George in the East, Middlesex, England
William Ball Son - Male 3 1858 Scholar St George in the East, Middlesex, England
Samuel Ball Son - Male 1 1860 - St George in the East, Middlesex, England

In 1851, living in John St as per the marriage:

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census

John Street, Mile End Old Town, Stepney, Middlesex, England<<<<

George Bull Head Married Male 27 1824 Carman Stepney, Middlesex, England
Elizabeth Bull Wife Married Female 27 1824 - Berkshire, England
Hannah E Bull Daughter - Female 0 1851 - Stepney, Middlesex, England

This seems to be the family in census 1871:


1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Milk Yard, Shadwell, Stepney, London, England


George Bull Head - Male 48 1823 - Middlesex, England
Elizabeth Bull Wife - Female 48 1823 - Berkshire, England
James Bull Son - Male 15 1856 - Middlesex, England
William Bull Son - Male 13 1858 - Middlesex, England
Samuel Bull Son - Male 10 1861 - Middlesex, England
Arthur Bull Son - Male 8 1863 - Middlesex, England
Jessie Bull Daughter - Female 5 1866 - Middlesex, England
Frederick Hallstrom Lodger - Male 18 1853 - Surrey, England

Image says George is a carman, and the children are all born St Georges.

I can't see a baptism for John William Bull, but George and Elizabeth have at least one more childre baptised:

Name: Jessie Maria Bull
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 29 Aug 1865
Father's name: George Bull
Mother's name: Elizabeth Bull
Parish or Poor Law Union: Stepney St Saviour and the Cross
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

Born 29th July 1865.

Address is 4 Splieltz Terrace, address for the 1862 baptisms had been 4 Sple Terrace S Georges East. George is a carman .

RE the baptism for Samuel that Rambling Rose posted, it was a batch baptism - George and Elizabeth had four children baptised that day.

Samuel as posted by Rose, his birthdate is given as 17th April 1860

then these three:

Name: James Bull
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 29 Jul 1862
Father's name: George Bull
Mother's name: Elizabeth Bull
Parish or Poor Law Union: St George in the East
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

Born 27th July 1857

Name: William Bull
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 29 Jul 1862
Father's name: George Bull
Mother's name: Elizabeth Bull
Parish or Poor Law Union: St George in the East
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

Born 17th Nov 1858

and then

Name: Arthur Bull
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 29 Jul 1862
Father's name: George Bull
Mother's name: Elizabeth Bull
Parish or Poor Law Union: St George in the East
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

Born 19th May 1862.

Father George is a carman.

The Samuel born 1860 St George East.... which ties in with the Samuel who married harriet , so you will need to buy at least one marriage cert, the one for John that Kucinta has posted details of

Name: Samuel Bull
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 29 Jul 1862
Father's name: George Bull
Mother's name: Elizabeth Bull
Parish or Poor Law Union: St George in the East
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

To give something to look from



Samuel Bull Head Married Male 30 1861 Carman St George in the East, Middlesex, England
Harriet E Bull Wife Married Female 30 1861 - Deptford, Kent, England Transcription
Ada E Bull Daughter - Female 9 1882 Scholar West Ham, Essex, England Transcription
Elizabeth E Bull Daughter - Female 5 1886 Scholar West Ham, Essex, England

Probably this birth
Births Jun 1860 (>99%)
BULL Samuel St Geo East 1c 396

I would try get the birth cert to confirm mother's name, it will help pin them down.

You really need the cert to have a better chance of finding them.

This is Samuel's marriage

Marriages Dec 1880 (>99%)
BUDGE Harriett Elizabeth West Ham 4a 106
BULL Samuel West Ham 4a 106