General Chat

I think that is a bit of a simplistic view. Would you rather they fought for IS or al Qaeda? Or how about Ba'ath or Hezbollah? Then of course there is the Free Syrian Army or Al Nusra? And not forgetting Syrian Resistance or the Army of Mujahedeen?

Just because they are fleeing a war zone does not make them "draft dodgers".

To fight, first you have to know your enemy.

Secondly you have to know what you are fighting for.

Thirdly you have to have confidence that your fighting will bring about a resolution that is good for your country.

It's just not as simple as you would like to think it is. So please do not condemn these men.

As I understand it - they don't want to fight FULL STOP.
Either for or against Assad.

Who are they going to fight for? The murderous Assad?

Now there is trouble on the Serbian/Croatian border. Police seemed to holding back crowds for safety near the railway station and letting the children & women through - not acceptable to the crowd :-P

Question: In the 1960's we referred to those who didn't want to be called up to fight in their countries armed forces as 'Draft Dodgers' - so why are all these Syrian men, who it has been said, don't want to be called on to fight for and in their own country , called refugees?

I was watching this live on Sky News yesterday. Initially it was a peaceful protest, which was why there were women and children right up at the front. Total nonsense to say they were being used as "human shields". The reporter (who got tear-gassed) said that one young man was trying to urge the others to stay calm but when the water cannons started other young men started throwing rocks.

Heart breaking to see children tear-gassed and a pregnant woman taken away on a stretcher.

It's time the EU got its act together and had a coherent strategy.

The Schengen Agreement gives citizens of each EU country the right to work in another EU state and to travel freely between states. The UK has opted out of the agreement.
Migrants and refugees/asylum seekers are not EU citizens unless and until their case has been assessed and they have been granted EU citizenship or residency. EU rules dictate that this must be carried out in the first "safe country" that they come to.
Therefore prima facie migrants and asylum seekers do not have the right to free travel.
But since the current situation was not envisaged and border controls within the Schengen area have been dismantled, it would follow that migrants etc. passing from one country to the next have the status of illegal immigrants and for the second country to try to prevent them entering would seem the better option than to try to find and return them once they are in, however harsh that would seem on indivuals.
There is a disparity betwen individual countries which retain a semblence of sovereignity and Brussels which treats the entire EU as a superstate with individual parliaments of no consequence.
As far as the UK is concerned, if we located and threw out the three quarters of a million or more illegal immigrants that are here we would be able to offer places to a decent number of genuine refugees rather than a pitiful twenty thousand over five years.

From watching the footage , I can also see the Hungarian point of view, 20 Hungarian police were injured. Very sad situation :-(

That's the one!

Added - in recent weeks Austria, Germany and err Denmark? have temporarily closed their borders because they were being overwhelmed.

DetEcTive - I think you are referring to the Schengen accord which is absolute rubbish anyway seeing as Britain does not adhere to it - unless it suits as far as sharing of info is concerned.

From the Hungarian point of view, they were being overwhelmed by the sheer numbers wanting to enter their country.

The water cannon etc was to try and force the mob away from the fence, or at least retreat a bit.

Crowd control is very rarely achieved with water cannon and tear gas though is it, barriers make for more violence, or accidental deaths. For those of the migrants/refugees who are fleeing men with guns ( and I acknowledge not all are ), being faced with men with guns is likely to make things worse not better.

Better to 'divide and conquer' after they have crossed borders rather than have an angry, fearful, frustrated crowd all gathered in one place?

A mob trying to break down Border Defences? Tear gas? Water cannon? Rocks?
Chiicken and Egg!

Like it or not, the Open Borders are supposed to be within the EU. As far as I'm aware, Serbia is not a full member. Therefore Hungary is within its rights to have physical barrier.

I have only cynical thoughts in my head about the situation - which is undoubtedly going to escalate :-(

I am not fully understanding the actions of the refugees - if they are genuine and just want to be safe they have that now, but they just seem to want more and more.

I daren't express my more cynical thoughts ;-)

1956 is almost 60 years ago! Quite a long time in my book.

Throwing rocks etc etc is hardly a diplomatic approach which is conducive to an open arm policy in anybody's book, surely?

No errol - the Hungarians haven't suggested they would. It only needs one frightened police or serviceman to fire and there could be even more of a disaster.

BBC24 this afternoon had an interview with a Hungarian official. He was saying the migrants tried to rush the 'gate', and were using children as human shields. Of course we only have his word for it, but there must have been some element of truth in his statement. I can believe the 'gate' was rushed.

Even more reason Not to scare them more by lighting fires and throwing rocks :-(

I realise that, but 1956 is not that long ago - we had a Hungarian girl living with us for over a year and many others settled here in Cardiff - I wonder what they think of it all

Precisely Lynda - and the fact that there are children with them says it all, really.

A new generation is in Government Ann. After goodness knows how many years under a communist rule, they are worried they will lose their identity. Their current argument is that Serbia is a 'safe' country where refugees should have applied for asylum.

There is going to have to be an awful lot if goodwill if the EU is going to cope with the current crisis. People still see themselves as citizens of their seperate countries, not citizens of a Eurpoean Union with all goals the same.