General Chat

Graffiti miscreants will not be sadly missed. Their spelling & grammar were never too accurate.

Yet, their ancient predecessors in the art are, however, much revered & ‘graffiti’ from thousands of years ago are given near God-like respect.

"writing on a blackboard is archaic"

and so it is to be sure. Instead try here:
http://www.educationsupplies.co.uk/stationery-supplies/whiteboards-and-accessories/mini-whiteboards

Blackboard paint is also a first rate pain in the neck to remove. It is sold mainly for the requirements of pubs and olde worlde farmers markets to put up menus of the day and such.

Speaking as somebody who served a term as a mathematics teacher in the days of black blackboards I assure you that the skills of "writing" on a wall blackboard have nothing to do with those of writing on paper. Being left handed like many things is impossible to understand unless you are a member.

One of the key reasons that left handers have had so much trouble with handwriting at school ( in addition to having the paper at at an angle if "crab" writing is to be avoided ) is that schools have ( and some still ) a tendency to impose a handwriting style eg cursive, Italic. None of these styles have much to do with writing on blackboards. They do depend on the direction of the handwriting which is pretty well the opposite of what comes naturally to a left hander. A lot of the hassle goes away if you use a ballpen as ballpens are oblivious to thick and thin strokes. The most resistant group to ballpens were of course the teaching profession ...

It is difficult / next-to-impossible to teach children something for which they can perceive no use just like cats. That is one of the key reasons why Latin dropped out of favour ( though it is currently staging a mini recovery ).

From where we are now in the winter of 2015 most adults in the west can quite easily get through their working or study day without using any writing implement beyond scrawling an electronic signature for the guy with the delivery from Amazon etc.

That especially applies to children who show a marked preference for iPads and such from the get go rather than writing. Adults (especially older teachers) seem to believe that children believe something is necessary "because I told you so" but all they do is to stoke up the flames of rebelion.

I marvel at the speed with which younger rellies can text. I marvel even more at the dexterity of the slightly older ones using software such as Mathematica.

Writing for my generation was a sina qua non without which everything - education, getting a job, love affairs - was impossible. It is a vastly over rated skill in today's world and education of the young should not be based upon it. As it is from 4-18 nearly every aspect of a child's education including success in exams is predicated by their skill and speed with handwriting. Given we are in 2015 not 1915 this is a a pernicious wrong.

Ah you say what about filling in forms ? I was in IKEA on Saturday. They have a wall full of touch screens where people can sign up for an IKEA store card.

Hand writing though a charming skill and should be available for those that want to have a go.

It may be of interest that in countries where the method of writing requires a much higher standard of calligraphy than with the Latin alphabet the young much prefer not to make the effort and go with the keyboard/thumbs. Examples are Japanese, Chinese, Hindi.

As I mentioned earlier, my youngest is left handed.
Both my brothers children are left handed (brother and s.i.l are right handed)
Having spoken to my brother, he just let his children 'get on with it' - but, like me, he never allowed then to 'crab' hand or hold their hand above what they were writing.
Both have excellent writing.
Children develop at different rates. My daughters sons (5 and 7) are not as good at writing as their elder sister was at the same age.

Rollo, you might think writing on a blackboard is archaic but blackboard paint is still available to buy, to use on boards, cupboard doors etc in homes so children or adults can leave messages, do pictures etc etc

I was meaning that this little girl can practise forming letters on the board so that she can compare them and then rub them away. If she is confident making the shape it will mean less pressure then she can concentrate on the angle of the paper etc

It sounds as tho Polly has cracked it tho, so I hope things will go well with the new equipment and 'lessons'

Lizx

This is really interesting reading... I am a leftie brought up in a right handed world... so I feel I have the best of both worlds...
Pour my coffee right handed but stir it left handed....

My first thoughts are is being a leftie really the issue..???

<3

Tilted paper works everytime for us left handers, we the normal ones.....
once you get master of the writing implement that seems to have a mind of its own,its leaps and bounds.

a tip Polly,,,,capital letters started from right to left come out super,

Hi Polly,

Lefties run in our family. My Dad and brother and my daughter. Looks like my wee granddaughter may be as well, she seems to favour her left hand.

My daughter has very neat writing, she has her page tilted and seems to hold her hand above the page . It does look 'different' - but horses for courses, whatever suits I say.

Well done with your granddaughter. To see an improvement so quickly is great and a good confidence boost for J. :-).

I never ever 'write' - everything is 'printed'. I can't remember if in my early schooling I was made to do proper writing.... No WELL DONE stickers for me ;-)

I bet you enjoyed your glass of wine.

Thank you once more for your comments I am still reading through and taking a few notes. I have joined ” families on line,” ( thank you Rollo) which is a support group helping left handed children, I have only registered this evening, but I will keep you posted as to how things develop when I start to use it.

LAST NIGHT

J arrived with grandad, bouncing in as she usually does. I had already set out the book I had brought for her on the dining room table, with some pens and more writing paper. She gave them a cursory glance, with a little bit of a smile (she has just lost two bottom teeth so was cuter than ever)

Just to relax her a bit, and stop her bouncing! we had a little chat, I asked her if she knew why she had come to see me tonight. She happily told me she wanted to make her writing better, I asked if she received help at school, she replied a little bit. I said there is no pressure here, and how much I was looking forward to helping her improve her writing.

I set the timer for twenty-five minutes, and we began. I asked her to write her first name on a piece of paper, I have to admit her writing isn't good, very clumsy, cramped and quite large, printed but joined up (if you know what I mean) I followed the instructions given in the exercise book, at the bottom of every page are instructions on how to line up the paper at an angle to the table these are repeated on every page. We had several practises, and she was fine with it, Instead of the page being in front of her, it has to set to her left side. We then looked at how she holds the pen, and this seemed to be as per the instructions in the book. She actually said that she is going to put the paper at school to her left side like this. The first five pages consisted of Dot-to-Dot exercises, the aim was to get her to follow the dots in a straight line, some good some not so good. Next she had to follow the outline of letters, again some were very good but some were poor. Halfway through we had to stop for a comfort break, when she bounced back in, I asked her to write her name again, it was much better than the original. We continued with these simple exercises until the timer went off. We then went through the pages and marked them as to how good we we thought they were, and I gave her a WELL DONE sticker. At this point I asked her to write her name again, honestly I was astounded, it was beautiful! Obviously there is still a long way to go, but the improvement was amazing.

I had taken some photo copies of the exercises and put them in a folder for her to practice at home with her Daddy, we arranged to have our next lesson next week. We took her back home, and she proudly showed everyone her work, they were all flabbergasted at the three names.


OH took me out for dinner, and a couple of glasses of wine.
<3 <3

Resulting from the increasing use of electronic communication, I am loosing the ability to write by hand. In any case, I was finding it increasingly difficult to source my ongoing supply of quill & ink.

And now, the trend is to besmirch the use of figurative language even though it is not just an adornment to speech & writing, it is often essential to good communication.

(This comment can also be supplied in large print, Braille or audio on request.)

I am a left hander .I do have trouble sometimes with cutting things e.g. Bread,Meat and paper.I have very good and neat handwriting of which I am quite proud .
My Dad always called me cack handed ( not sure if cack is the right spelling).
I was lucky not to be forced at school to use my right hand for writing .I think it was not long before I started school that that was the norm.
I have never bought left handed things,but maybe if I had it would have made life a little easier.

The school really ought to offer more support, but you might have to push. Has she seen an occupational therapist?


Rose

My OH is left handed & his writing is very neat .I was left handed at school when I first started. but am Ambidextrous can do most things with both hands to be honest my writing is neater with left hand .but slower .to do Barbra :-)

Writing on a blackboard is archaic ( children have whiteboards now! ) and also pointless 'cos the problem left handed children have is not with writing per se but writing on paper.

In the past teaching shibboleths such as using ink, not using ballpens, and adherence to various writing styles just made things difficult for everybody and a whole lot worse for southpaws.

The classical grip on a pen/pencil is not a good deal for left handers 'cos they need to have the paper at an angle ( another teaching nonsense "keep your paper straight!!! " ) and to keep the pen steady it needs a three finger grip. I have a grip which uses all my fingers + thumb and holds the pen rock steady whichever hand I use. I won prizes for calligraphy at school so it can't be all bad. OTOH I was accused of cheating at exams for having the paper at an angle!

The big downer though for left handers is that Latin script is meant for right handers. No matter what you do it is simply quicker to write with the right hand. So long as much of the teaching profession insist on handwriting rather than using digital devices the speed factor is crucifying esp. in exams. Further many (not all, not yt) left handers have crabby uneven writing though perfectly legible. For whatever reason teachers believe that handwriting must not only be legible but neat ( why? ) . Fortunately most employers have moved on from handwriting.

The QWERTY keyboard layout was adopted long ago due to mechanical problems in early typewriters. Thanks to the typing pool it has endured ever since. There are alternatives to QWERTY at reasonable cost which make a lot more sense and are especially helpful to left handers. Schools can be persuaded to use them if you pay and are determined enough.

Right handers will never ever become ambidextrous. Left handers have a good chance of doing so and will find it really useful not least in the common enough event of injuring an arm or hand. It is a real plus on the keyboard, sports and diy, arts and crafts too.

OH's handwriting was superb - my Mum was left handed and she used to get beaten over the knuckles with a chair rung in school for writing left handed :-(

My dad was left-handed & he was a very neat writer.

He used to quip that no Pope was ever left-handed.

Around 12% of the world's population is left handed - some studies suggest it might even be as high as 30%.

I am one of those as is my younger son, my brother and it looks like my 2 year old grandson might well be too.

No big deal in our family. Handwriting never the best but what is more interesting is the degree of left handedness varies. I write LH but otherwise am otherwise right handed and am ambidextrous when it comes to using tools such as screwdrivers, hammers, saws etc. I use a knife and fork RH apart from a spoon which is always LH.

My son, on the other hand, does very little right handed even uses all his cutlery LH. so we have to remember to lay his table setting the opposite way round when he comes to stay.

I think part of the problem stems from some parents and teachers wanting to 'interfere' rather than letting them get on with it as normal.

Bless her, hope she doesn't get too anxious about the difficulties she is having. I and most people I know are righthanded so this is not from experience but I wondered about getting her a blackboard and chalk or even painting a wall in her room with blackboard paint, it's so easy to wipe away a mistake and chalk is simple to use to practice her writing style. You could chalk lines for her to follow or let her write freely, she will soon notice it is wonky and adjust to writing in a straightish line. I am sure with your loving input she will do fine in time.

Lizx

I'm a bit like Andrew ......

......... my mother's brother was fully ambidextrous, possibly because he was forced to use his right hand at school (in the 1920s and 30s) but possibly also naturally.

I write with my right hand naturally, but I do lots of things left handed ............... I was once taught tailoring, and had to be very very careful because my natural way of starting to hem a coat or skirt was left handed.

We used to make our own Christmas wreaths at work, and, yes, I started more than one of those "left handed". It caused great amusement as I then tried to make a neat finish!

dusting surfaces or wiping down walls is quite easy for me ............... I don't move very much, I just switch the cloth from hand to hand :-)

I write righthanded, but if I played guitar, it would be left handed. I also deal cards lefthanded. If I was to shoot that to would be lefthanded. Everything else I do righthanded.

Andy

Thank you everyone.

Rollo thanks to you for the link. I will be checking it out tomorrow. It's been suggested we do twenty five minutes to begin with. She loves reading so I will be asking her to read to me before we start.

Fingers crossed.