General Chat

Rambling Rose,
I'm not disagreeing with any of that, but if not the local fit young men then who should stand up to IS ? It's pretty clear they will carry on until they're stopped.
Maybe the Western countries should be arming and training them on the borders so they can reclaim their homes.

Of course home grown problems should be tackled, nowhere have I said otherwise.

And if there is the will to do it, I suspect there is certainly the money, IF it is used properly and not wasted on the excesses of the rich and their lackeys in government ( my personal opinion of our present government, can't speak for Canada...I don't know, I live here)


But equally, so far as I know, no woman in Canada is slaughtered and buried in a mass grave because she is too old to be a sex slave to IS? Nor are children gassed by their own government, nor are you doomed to die because you follow a different religion, or because you want a democratically elected government ( or not even that in fact, just to have the freedom to live and bring up your children in safety).

Nor I with you I was just stating the facts.

I don't wish to argue with you, Caroline.

Margee,
whilst that is true in many cases it is not true in some. People that freeze to death on the street of Toronto for instance are often suffering from Mental health problems or other health problems. Also many are willing to work but if all they can get is minimum wage employment then they often can't do more than live hand to mouth in big cities like Toronto.

Oh, how I wish I had never started this thread! I was so proud to be a Canadian helping our fellow man. So happy to see all of those smiling faces on the refugees, especially the children.

There is absolutely no comparison of the plight of the refugees as compared to fellow Canadians. This is the land of opportunity and anything can be accomplished if one is willing to work for it.

Again I think we can agree to disagree..........

Sorry Kay, whilst we didn't agree on everything you certainly did not jump down my throat and I didn't mean to include you in that !!

Like I've said equal treatment......the city are saying they might open a closed hospital in Toronto to house the refugees....well let some of the homeless in there too then there's plenty of room.....when it gets really cold we open up extra temp shelters the rest of the winter there's very limited shelter available even when it's well below freezing.

The "enemy" in WW2 was pretty well defined I think you'll agree?

So you would suggest what? that young Syrian men who support neither Assad nor IS just wait on the borders of their country in some sort of limbo until one side or the other is the 'winner' or everyone's dead, or that they go back as some sort of 'resistance' and fight against both...with what, backed by whom?

How would you say they could best 'fight' for their country in that situation?

Possibly by leaving while they can and returning some time in the future to rebuild it having made a decent life elsewhere and possibly learnt the value of living in a democracy?

There are no easy answers.

It's all relative isn't it.

I wasnt jumping down your throat at all,,,but pointing out its understood where you are coming from.,,,,,,,the feeling with the same countries failings is universal whos opening it doors.

Okay seriously ...you think there is no comparison at all ?

Agreed in Syria both sides seem to be as evil as each other, but that said they could stay closer to home and help fight for democracy in their own country and to take out IS.

I'm pretty sure no one wanted to die in WW2 either, but we sent fit young men and in some case women to fight against the enemy.

You said all countries already have problems therefore we shouldn't not help others because of this, so the home grown problems either take equal footing or a back step. I say equal footing and I'm getting my head bitten off for it.

Oh well hopefully we can agree to disagree....

But I'll address one point

"On that thread why are so many fit young men running away from their homes, "

Because they do not want to die. They do not want to fight FOR Assad, they do not want to fight FOR IS. They believe in neither 'cause' both Assad and IS are the 'enemy'.

Citing WW2 is redundant in this case, there is NO comparison.

"Caroline Report 12 Dec 2015 19:53
So your view is home grown problems shouldn't take equal footing with overseas problems ?
You would then be agreeing that all of your pensioners that grew up in the war, worked hard and paid their taxes all their lives should take second place to others.
On that thread why are so many fit young men running away from their homes, their families, their countries to seek a better life elsewhere ? I know my grand parents and parents didn't run they stood their ground and fought back in WW2 for instance."

WHERE did I say or suggest any of that interpretation?

Here is a link

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/09/saudi-arabia-denies-giving-syrians-sanctuary-150912050746572.html

or from

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anhvinh-doanvo/europes-crisis-refugees_b_8175924.html

"With Saudi Arabia's non-signatory status, the Syrians residing in Saudi Arabia are classified as "Arab brothers and sisters in distress" instead of refugees covered by UN treaties. According to Nabil Othman, the UNHCR regional representative to the Gulf region, there were 500,000 Syrian refugees in Saudi Arabia at the time of his statement. The government itself of Saudi Arabia has stated that it has, over the past five years since the start of the conflict hosted 2.5 million refugees."

So from that I would suggest that the Arab states 'have' taken what we term refugees, but also I think that a good number of refugees would not want to go to the same Arab states that supply money to IS, that have the same laws and the same lack of democracy as the country they are fleeing? I wouldn't.

So your view is home grown problems shouldn't take equal footing with overseas problems ?
You would then be agreeing that all of your pensioners that grew up in the war, worked hard and paid their taxes all their lives should take second place to others.
On that thread why are so many fit young men running away from their homes, their families, their countries to seek a better life elsewhere ? I know my grand parents and parents didn't run they stood their ground and fought back in WW2 for instance.

Charity begins at home....doesn't stop there...but it begins there.

And you think that isn't the same here Caroline? That there are not 'home grown' problems that could be fixed with more resources and more money and more care?

You can always say, there are poor people, people in need in this country ( UK) or Canada or the US etc etc ad infinitum who need help, who deserve help, and that there are plenty of rich people in rich countries who could do more.

I'll assume you haven't seen any of the multitude of threads where the question regarding why SA etc don't take refugees? or why, if one were a refugee ( they're not all Muslims remember, would either choose or be SAFE to seek refuge there.

and again surely one of the rights you say they're looking for is freedom of speech and thought , surely the irony isn't lost here.............

Again I never said they couldn't come over...please read it properly...I said do like for like...if you're helping 10,000 refugees help 10,000 of your fellow countrymen.

It's funny how those that seem to back a cause never ever accept anyone else view without seeking to destroy the so called none believers.....

What I would rather is the first lot of refugees who are arriving this year are mostly privately sponsored ...which in the past meant you had to cover their costs for the next 10 years no state handouts.....now most of these people will be hard pushed to look after them for a year let alone 10.

As for training sure train them but also help with the cost of training those already here. We have high youth unemployment for instance train them too.

Rather than jumping down my throat why not ask why rich countries like Saudi Arabia aren't taken any refugees ???

Caroline,

I think most can see your point and yes the same problems exsist in all countries who are giving refuge,but in the long term it wont be long before the adults of the refugees are found some employment in turn will pay their due taxes into the countries ecomony,then the up and coming children educated to a high standard,then into employemt which will give back most of what it cost to establish them.......just that it will be sometime later.

Unfortunally residents arent consulted in what any GOV decides for that country.Put up or shut up.

The refugees at this time I'm sure are very grateful of any country that is opening its doors.Lets hope the outcome is for the good.
Only time will tell.

No but poor Canadians, like poor and homeless Brits aren't in imminent danger of having their throats slit by IS, or chemical attack from their own government, or having their homes bombed, are they?

Would you rather the refugees did not get skill training and be a permanent drain on the tax payer...or that they get training ( if needed) in order to be able to contribute taxes? Here, people seem unable to decide whether refugees or migrants should be denigrated for taking benefits or denigrated for 'nicking our jobs' and NOT taking benefits. Can't win can they?

Of course if Canada and the UK are such terrible places to be one could always go and live in Syria I suppose....or become an economic migrant in one of the other democratic nations?

We moan a lot, but few of us have to watch our children blown apart, or our families decimated, or losing a home and having to survive in the rubble or live in a refugee camp.