General Chat

Arent the individual UK cabinet members/Prime minister sitting MPs? The Commissioners haven't been elected by anyone. They could be anyone from the local Street Cleaner, the retired CEO of M&S to the Prime Ministers/elected Head of States sister-in-law's nephew's neighbour.

Rollo, absolutely well-said.

JIT production has been used for decades by car manufacturers such as Nissan in NE England. Nissan also has a plant in Spain so while the UK plant is extremely efficient we, in England, could see the loss of thousands of jobs in and around vehicle and its ancillary production sector if import tax was payable to Europe. How many car manufacturing plants do we have in the UK whose parent plants are in Europe? Nobody in his/her right mind would think of leaving car production in England if he/she had a plant in Germany or France for instance.

Rollo, I also have in mind the London Stock Exchange. If the vote was a negative one, how long would it be before the majority (if not all) of the LSE's operations would shift to Frankfurt? It has been no secret that the shift to Germany has been mooted over the last couple of decades.

I agree with you over the migrant question too. For those for whom England and the English is be-all and end-all, it may be wise to remember that people come in all shapes, sizes and colours but a good example for those whose wish it is to leave Europe because of the migrant situation, may I remind them of at least one of the people from past history whom many seem to admire and glorify did not have an English-born mother.

If one views the drain on England's purse bad now because of migrants, how much worse it could become when financial and industrial production migrates to Europe and England's unemployment figures and, therefore, our financial obligations rise astronomically. Fewer workers, higher taxes to cover costs incurred due to a negative vote. It would be ironic to see a rise in living conditions in Europe and a fall in England because we let more manufacturing slip through our fingers and head to another continent of which we had no part (eg shipbuilding to Asia).

... so it's 'In' for me every time. There's too much to lose by voting negatively.

When it comes down to it, I suspect the result will be to stay in. Like the Scottish Referendum, no one really knows what an 'Out' vote would mean. Many of those who choose to vote, or choose to vote No will be those swayed by the current micro issues of Benefits/Migration.

EDIT – that didn’t come out right.

Fence-sitters who choose to vote Out will be swayed by the micro issues.
Fence-sitters who choose to vote In would be concerned with the un-known macro consequences of leaving the EU.

'always keep-a hold of nurse - for fear of finding something worse!
.............
Fence-sitters like me would really like an impartial list of reasons to stay in v reasons to come out.

Well he is back waving a piece of paper after talks with the German Chancellor! :-D

Well Mayfield the bit of paper could be handy in the Privy ;-) ;-) :-D :-D. About the only use it will have :-|

Det, the same could be said for members of the Cabinet.

From Wiki
"Occasionally cabinet members are selected from outside the Houses of Parliament and if necessary granted a peerage. Harold Wilson appointed Frank Cousins and Patrick Gordon Walker to the 1964 cabinet despite their not being MPs at the time. "

"occasionally" "1964"?.."if necessary Granted a Peerage" ( to give them status?)

That may be so but, unlike the EU Commission, the majority of Cabinet members are elected by the populous, then appointed by the PM

KenSE - where's the pros/cons BBC link? Was going to read that later. Did you decide it had a bias?

"The key points of the deal are:

An "emergency brake" on migrants' in-work benefits for four years when there are "exceptional" levels of migration. The UK will be able to operate the brake for seven years

Child benefit for the children of EU migrants living overseas will now be paid at a rate based on the cost of living in their home country - applicable immediately for new arrivals and from 2020 for the 34,000 existing claimants

The amending of EU treaties to state explicitly that references to the requirement to seek ever-closer union "do not apply to the United Kingdom", meaning Britain "can never be forced into political integration"

The ability for the UK to enact "an emergency safeguard" to protect the City of London, to stop UK firms being forced to relocate into Europe and to ensure British businesses do not face "discrimination" for being outside the eurozone

The prime minster had to make concessions to get a deal with the leaders of the 27 other EU members.

Mr Cameron had originally wanted a complete ban on migrants sending child benefit abroad but had to compromise after some eastern European states rejected that and also insisted that existing claimants should continue to receive the full payment.
On how long the UK would be able to have a four-year curb on in-work benefits for new arrivals, Mr Cameron had to give way on hopes of it being in place for 13 years, settling for seven instead."

http://www.historytoday.com/stephen-bates/two-sides-same-party

There won’t be agreement until each understands what the other is talking about.

At the moment, I haven't an idea how I would vote. And I'm not being helped by politicians & commentators who spend excessive air-time rubbishing other people's opinions & beliefs.

The time of talking 'shop' is long over. My default position is that, more than likely, I will cast a vote of some sort. Who knows how I will feel tomorrow or even the day after.

What BBC Link?

"If England catches a cold Ireland sneezes"
- Enda Kenny, Taoiseach
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jan/25/northern-ireland-irish-republic-eu-referendum-enda-kenny

Razor wire at Annaghraw, Monaghan ?

(for Dermot)

better the devil you know

"The UK's EU referendum: All you need to know"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32810887

Sorry Ken - thought you had posted a link. Rose has now found it. Thank you.

Dermot - that's exactly how many undecided people think.

A 'No Brainer' as far as we are concerned. A big definite IN.

Couldn´t agree more IGP.
I don´t think that anyone has considered the consequences if there is a No vote.
It will be akin to Partition in 1947 (although hopefully without the bloodshed). All the Brits who currently live in other EU countries will be returning home because they no longer have the right to live in the country of their choice & everyone from another EU country who currently lives in Britain will be going in the opposite direction.
On the plus side, the planes & ferry operators will be rubbing their hands in glee. ;-)

As I recall it (someone will correct me I am sure) that in 1975 - the referendum was for Free Trade (free passage of goods) but not to be ruled by Europe.

I do not mind Europe being treated as a good neighbour. My neighbours are friendly and we help each out at times: however should the day ever come when they begin to tell me how to run/behave in my home then WATCH IT. As for dictating where I should spend my money.

I have to vote to stay IN I´m an expat ...sorry ;-)

Back to say Cheers Rollo I can´t get that ruddy song out of my head now :-| :-| :-| :-| :-| :-| :-| :-|

chirp. grrrr