General Chat

The same way we always have Ann, you read all the arguments for and against, 'biased' and unbiased,and come to your own conclusion. :-D

Or you could go with the much less rigorous 'process of elimination', eg if Gove ( and his little mate Murdoch) , Farage and IDS, all of whom I despise, particularly IDS for his scornful treatment of the disabled and ill, are all for coming out, I might feel it in my gut that staying in is the better option :-)

Of course I would always recommend the first course of action :-)

AnnC, we have to decide what we, as individuals, think is 'right' for the UK. It doesn't help that both sides are scare-mongering.

I'm thinking that if the politicians from all parties are coming up with something different - some for and some against, what chance have we of coming to the right conclusion

"In 2005 it was reported that bagpipes would be banned under new EU noise pollution laws which would not allow noises louder than 87 decibels. "

why not?
this foul and false instrument should be replaced with the Northumbrian pipes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiuMwskhsGk

:-D

There have been so many lies told about membership of the EU over the years that people quote them as fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromyth

http://news.sky.com/story/1266181/the-top-10-european-union-myths-debunked

I'm not sure what can be done about stupid people believing BS.

There's a rational and informative debate to be had but I doubt we'll get it once the Tory press have decided which way they want to go.

In the beginning we had the kingdom of West Kent, the kingdom of East Kent, the East Saxons, the West Saxons, the Middle Saxons, the South Folk, the North Folk, the fatness of Mercia, the fastness of Northrumbia ... aall having a go at each other, all vying for supremacy all suffering from being screwed by continental merchants who knew far better than the English how to build ships. By Alfred's day the knowhow had entirely been lost.

And then, pouncing down on England like a wolf and swoop down like an eagle, the Danes rent the kingdom apart going thither and thather as they would wont harvesting gold and fair damsels. To underline the point Rollo occupied all of northern France which he named Normandy. Just about as soon as the English had recovered their independence the grandson of Rollo, the bastard son of a tanner's daughter invaded and once more the English would be subjugated. The current ruling house claims descent from the tanner's daughter.

And so here we are a thousand years later huddled together with a bunch of proud "independent" nations on the European peninsula of Asia. To the east lies thousand of miles of hostile terriitory run by an increasingly hostile Russia and acquisative Chinese.

"We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." B. Franklin

I do not agree with Ms T May about much but on the matter of national security she is bang on the button.

For somebody who has been perched uncomfortably on the fence, this has been a very illuminating thread so thanks to all who have put their views. Particularly Rollo and Rose, lots of food for thought there. :-) Not quite so confused now.

These are some of the things that the "leave" group believe would be a Very Good Thing. They may or may not be true.

1. The UK would be able to make more favorable trade agreements with China, USA, India etc. Possibly cheap lamb and butter chirp cheep? TTIP would go through exactly as US big business wants it too,, anything else, nailed down or not, could be sold to the Chinese ...

2. The EU, desperate for UK business, would offer a tax free trade agreement, no need to comply with CE standards (bring back the kitemark).

3. All those pesky johnny foreigners could be given their marching orders. That around half of foreign immigrants are not of EU origin seems to have attracted little comment recently except for the possible deportation of a 90 year old SAfrican lady. Brits should not want to work with our enemies in the EU. They will be able instead to trade all over the world. They do so already? Really?

4. No more "Human Rights" and all that nonsense about justice, elf n safety etc etc.

5. No more obediance to the false cause of climate change. Instead we will have even more grouse moors, golf courses, diesel fueled power stations, Chinese nuclear plant, more Chelsea tractors.

6. Skilled Brits who don't like it will be welcome to push off. That they are already doing so in their tens of thousands is something the leave crowd prefer to ignore.

7. No more dark Scandinavian and French TV on Channel4 which is to be sold of to Murdoch. Without any interference from EU competition authority such deals will be much easier.

8. We will win eurovision.

Those with substantial assets ( over £ 1 million excluding house ) and household income > £ 100 K would be likely to do well. Everyone else wod notice a very marked drop in living standards which for those on min wage (dying wage?) would be catastrophic. It already is in London.

BUT WE WOULD BE FREE RAH RAH RAH

maybe not

Just a question because I haven't really heard anyone give a straight answer ...

What is it that the out campaigners think Britain will be able to do that it can't do now?

In other words what do you personally think you are being 'stopped' from doing? and is what you think you are being 'stopped' from doing worth losing set against the benefits you have got from being in the EU?

Back to say Cheers Rollo I can´t get that ruddy song out of my head now :-| :-| :-| :-| :-| :-| :-| :-|

chirp. grrrr

I have to vote to stay IN I´m an expat ...sorry ;-)

As I recall it (someone will correct me I am sure) that in 1975 - the referendum was for Free Trade (free passage of goods) but not to be ruled by Europe.

I do not mind Europe being treated as a good neighbour. My neighbours are friendly and we help each out at times: however should the day ever come when they begin to tell me how to run/behave in my home then WATCH IT. As for dictating where I should spend my money.

Couldn´t agree more IGP.
I don´t think that anyone has considered the consequences if there is a No vote.
It will be akin to Partition in 1947 (although hopefully without the bloodshed). All the Brits who currently live in other EU countries will be returning home because they no longer have the right to live in the country of their choice & everyone from another EU country who currently lives in Britain will be going in the opposite direction.
On the plus side, the planes & ferry operators will be rubbing their hands in glee. ;-)

A 'No Brainer' as far as we are concerned. A big definite IN.

Sorry Ken - thought you had posted a link. Rose has now found it. Thank you.

Dermot - that's exactly how many undecided people think.

"The UK's EU referendum: All you need to know"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32810887

"If England catches a cold Ireland sneezes"
- Enda Kenny, Taoiseach
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jan/25/northern-ireland-irish-republic-eu-referendum-enda-kenny

Razor wire at Annaghraw, Monaghan ?

(for Dermot)

better the devil you know

What BBC Link?

There won’t be agreement until each understands what the other is talking about.

At the moment, I haven't an idea how I would vote. And I'm not being helped by politicians & commentators who spend excessive air-time rubbishing other people's opinions & beliefs.

The time of talking 'shop' is long over. My default position is that, more than likely, I will cast a vote of some sort. Who knows how I will feel tomorrow or even the day after.

http://www.historytoday.com/stephen-bates/two-sides-same-party