General Chat

David ...............

I was born and raised in England, so I do understand the UK, far more than you probably could ever guess :-)

Thank you Sylvia for your informative post. The United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland is as you already know a Nation of peoples who are not
of one religion or political persuasion. In many regions the differences are as subtle as the dialect. The haves and the have nots, but all have equal opportunity.
In Northern Ireland the difference in religion determines the individuals work prospects and consequently their financial wealth and where they live. Years of troubles there has been rooted in where a group lived rather than how they worship their God.
Funnt how subjects of a united nation have often such dis-united lives, due largely dare I say to politics and religion.

I don't think any of the older English censuses asked for your religion

I'm not sure about the Scottish ones.

It was probably very important for the Irish to know ........... although I think that it might well have been assumed that if you lived in certain areas you were more likely to belong to one religion than to the other.

Welsh censuses asked which languages you spoke, English, Welsh or both, but not the religion.


I know that one side of OH's ancestors are thought to have been Quakers back in the early part of the 19th century, and I have seen a little bit of evidence of that, but they were all baptised, married and buried in the Anglican church .............. not one word on censuses.

The only way you would know the religion from an English census would be if it was included as part of one's occupation, eg Welsh Methodist Minister, Minister in the Wesleyan, Roman Catholic Father, etc etc

Thank you Rambling Rose. The census form I'd been reading from was NI
Belfast, Duncairn ward to be precise. But NI is part of the union on of Great Britain.

Sorry if I appear to meander (sounds nicer than wander) but isn't it interesting
where these threads and their contributions take us

In a general sense I am not fond of 'labels' not the ones that classified infirmities on the census, nor the tick boxes to say what nationality/ethnicity you are. I am not wholly 'British' ( by my own definition) nor am I strictly speaking entirely C of E.

But those entries in census are incredibly useful if they appear, for eg knowing from an American census that a couple came from Poland originally might make a huge difference to a search, or that someone was labelled 'deaf from birth' might help with finding where they went to school. Likewise that simple Y or N in the "born in county" column in the 1841 can be very helpful can't it :-)

Well that's true re NI David, but that wasn't the topic was it? and I don't think that on the census forms you were talking about in particular, it was asked what religion you were? ( 1901 and 1911 Irish excepting of course).

I believe that on the last one many put "Jedi Knght" referencing Star Wars, so what our descendants will make of that I don't know !

Certainly the connection between religion and politics has proved thorny, throughout history. I can't recall if anywhere on the most recent census ( 2011) it did ask what my political affiliations are, but of course now I could still follow any of the religions or none and that wouldn't indicate what my political leanings were. :-)

Thank you magpie, I understand and appreciate your post.

Rambling Rose, if there is no connection between census forms and religion, wht is that until recently you has to declare your religion?

In Northern Ireland the closeness of politics and religion was instrumental in causing the "troubles" just a few decades ago

I think David that you just have to accept that until relatively recently , very little was understood about mental illness, and people's reaction to it was reflected in the language that was used to cover a multitude of mental afflictions that we now have an understanding of, and because of that we have a completely different attitude to. In HenryV1th day it was often attributed to witchcraft, and a lot of poor souls were executed in the belief that they were responsible for another's affliction. The King was thought to have had a imbalance of humour in his head. All sorts of bizarre treatments were used obviously to no avail, and yes he was made quite aware that he was mad, as was George 111 !! In his case the terrible treatment at the hands of Francis Willis and his son made his condition very obvious!!
Luckily we now have a completely different approach to psychiatric illness, including a sympathetic attitude both by physicians and the population at large.

In my own defence.
I wasn't preaching or talking tosh
Simply using Daniel chapter 4 as an example
showing Nebuchadnezzar's affliction was recorded

well, most of mine are called James :-)

and most of of OH's are called Cuthbert or Gilbert, and like wives called Elizabeth

...... now those male names sound more like Vikings or Normans but they do obviously understand the bible as they all have many children :-D

The only connection I can see between the bible and census forms is all the 'begatting' that goes on in both :-)

http://www.lamblion.us/2008/08/those-boring-begats.html

But at least in the bible they weren't all called William ;-) (I have a surfeit of Williams)

( I think I may have just offended all of you by trying for a bit of levity :-) )

I said "might even be"

I did not say I was offended ............. in fact what I said was that I didn't even read them

do you want to parse every word of what I wrote?

No, I'm not even remotely offended, but I can't see how anyone can be offended by religious quotes?! Irritated maybe, but I can't see how religious quotes can be offensive, particularly that one?! :-S

magpie ............


I thought it was clear what I was saying, given the context

that people should be aware that others might not appreciate or like religious quotations, and that it might even give offence.

In fact, we should all be aware of how others might respond to what we say


You might well be offended by what I've just said ........ and for that I am sorry.

"Fools," said I, "You do not know.
Silence like a cancer grows.
Hear my words that I might teach you.
Take my arms that I might reach you."
But my words like silent raindrops fell
And echoed in the wells of silence

And the people bowed and prayed
To the neon god they made.
And the sign flashed out its warning
In the words that it was forming.
And the sign said, "The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls
And tenement halls
And whispered in the sounds of silence."

Paul Simon

Many things have been inspired by Balthazar's feast but it is not a good way to interpret census forms.

Sorry Sylvain, What should we all be aware of - just curious?!

nope

I just don't read it.

But I believe it is something that everyone should be aware of.

I apologise if I have caused offence. Want me to withdraw, delete it? :-S

some of us know the bible, some of us don't, and some of us couldn't care less having had it thrust down their throats when young.

I don't read religious posts.

Sorry for digressing from census forms but some regard Daniel
chapter 4 as accurate.