General Chat

Here's a little true story, I've made it brief as possible but have to set something of the scene first.

Once upon a time there was a deep and wide river estuary, so deep and wide that ships could sail on it. The deeply wooded banks provided all the wood needed to build quite large ships, ships which sailed as far as America exporting locally made cloth and smaller craft which sailed up and down the coast to one of the largest ports in the country. The king spent a very large amount of money to dredge the estuary when it began to silt up to ensure the continued trade. However time passed and trade dwindled and the estuary was restored to relative quiet.

As the Industrial Revolution took hold,and railways spread across the country interest in the area was renewed due largely to its natural beauty, the estuary being one of the loveliest places that painters and poets had seen. A wealthy business owner decided to build houses for some workers at the mouth of the estuary which by this time had silted up and become, in effect, reclaimed land. His plans ran smoothly for a short while, a small railway was built and a brickworks, but ultimately he found his idea was not financially viable, so he retired to enjoy the scenery, and the little village he had built pottered along.

In the mid 20th century the village grew with the building of holiday homes, the tourist trade was the main industry and the village was thriving. But times again changed and though it is still there with some 500 homes and businesses it is not an area of high employment and is 'not what it was'.

Being at sea level it has in the last 100 years seen a lot of work to save it from the sea, recently nearly £7 million has been spent on drainage and the construction of a salt marsh to allow flooding at high tide, but still the storms have brought some level of damage.

Now there is a plan to have a 'managed retreat' from this piece of reclaimed land, and over the next 40/50 years no more repair or upgrade of sea defences will be made. It is just too expensive for such a small return so to speak. Whether you believe in man made climate change or not, it is true that the sea is winning the battle.

Now what would you do? Spend increasingly large amounts to save the village or let the sea reclaim it?

Here is an article to show what the villagers want ( not all of them though lol) . I thought it might be interesting to see what everyone thought :-)

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/residents-living-village-damned-consider-10879413

Personally, I don't 'believe' in the concept of Global Warming - I think the climate comes and goes in waves - but DO believe we should stop trashing the planet.
This is relevant:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-35549952

The original houses were built on 'reclaimed' land. The sea will, inevitably reclaim them.
I don't think total destruction will occur as quickly as the Council say, but looking at the picture - the village is actually at sea level!!!
If the sea doesn't destroy the village from the top, surely some form of underground erosion will take place. How do you defend against that?

Rose,
As soon as I started reading this I knew the area you were talking about as I used to live on the other side of this estuary.
It is so sad for the people who have bought properties there as it is a beautiful place.surely in this day and age some technology could be used to safeguard this area for much longer!
If they can create man made islands in the sea.maybe something can be done.
I know what the councils are like as had dealings with them in the early 60's over bringing an electricity line across the railway to my cafe.
We have had a situation here with the pier that was neglected for years and now will cost a fortune to demolish as it got into such a state..money spent on it a number of years ago would have made it to the attraction it once was .
I believe the Barmouth bridge has been saved...thank goodness as it is the link to the other side.
This is a beautiful area,and would be a pity to lose it.

Maggie, the lower part of the village ( which is most of it!) is under attack from front and back as you can see from the picture, when the storms whip up the sea the rain also raises the river level behind. It was the sea front that took the brunt last year, the waves came over, but I heard some of the damage was caused more by the rocks and concrete being slammed over with it. The last time it flooded 'properly' was about a 100 years ago, before the sea wall was raised.

I don't think it will go that soon either, it's a worst case scenario.

Brenda as you may remember I moved from there 2008, the people who bought from me are not able to sell ( at the price that would cover all the costs that they had extending the bungalow anyway) so are 'stuck', as are many of the homeowners.

If I was still there I wouldn't be worrying about it on the grounds I would be long gone before the village was lol.

I think we have to let it go back to the sea - just like we are letting most of the east coast of Norfolk and Suffolk go. Nature will win the end.

A 'managed move' always confuses me. Would 'someone' build and give home owners a new comparable dwelling or would the home owners have to pay for it? Compulsary purchase would only be for the current value. Even taking a down-turn in property prices into consideration, the value wouldn't be anywhere close to pre 'abandonment'.

Could 'they' build on land in the locality or would planning consent be an issue?

Rose ,I remember you moving....gosh ,was it 2008...how time flies.
I suppose a lot of folk will take the risk and think the same way as you....the price for living in such a lovely place.

I believe Barmouth has changed and has some sand dunes on the beach as a result of them building the barrier across the estuary to the island in the 1970s.
It was always rather treacherous up the estuary as I well remember in the 60s the overloaded boat hitting the bridge at Penmaenpool and a load of trippers were swept along with the current and died.
I had a guest house at the time and we didn't know if any of our visitors were on it.
.
I always thought that it was the east Coast eroding and the west silting...that's what I seem to remember from school,but it seems that all the coastline is affected these days with the rise in sea levels.
Look at Harlech castle though and how all the lower land below the castle was once under the sea!

It's a tricky one, I think probably what will be part of the plan ( or as I would think it would go anyway) is that the first people to go would be the current tenants who have their rent paid or partly paid will be rehoused by the council as and when council housing comes available.

Some of the business owners also own rental property, some of which is not up to scratch repairs wise ( I don't want to say too much to identify ), so how that would be compensated I am not sure and I think they will be the ones making most 'noise'. There isn't much land in the vicinity for building a new community as such, too many mountains, so flat land that doesn't flood is at something of a premium, it would certainly have to be some distance away.

I have been to the Indian restaurant there when I visited Tec, who lives not too far away. The village looked very run down. I would let it go personally

Brenda, I remember the beach in Barmouth from holidays when I was a child, the 'middle' is quite different now with sand dunes where once it was flat. The estuary still has the really deep channel under the Barmouth end of the rail bridge, as you say treacherous currents if anyone falls in.

It doesn't seem possible that it is is 8 years this year we moved :-0 I am not sorry to have missed the various storms which put the trains off for weeks on end, and they have been off again from Dovey junction recently.

Yes as you say look how high Harlech Castle is! If the tides do get higher that stretch of railway between Dovey Junction and up to Porthmadog will go I think? I used to take the train up to Coleg H daily and often on stormy days the waves would be crashing very close to the line between Barmouth and Llanaber .

Linda yes, that is kind of my feeling also. It is as I said 'not what it was' either from when we moved there in 1992 or when we used to go to Barmouth for holidays and pop over to go on the miniature railway. One of the things I have to disagree with is the suggestion to build the sea wall even higher and drop more stones there, it is already hard to scramble down to the beach unless you drive to the slip way at one end, or right down to the point. If there is no easy access to the beach tourists will go elsewhere I think and that is where the money comes from.

I agree with those who say let it go. I am in Norfolk and have seen large areas of beach disappear since I moved here.
The cost is huge to try to stop it and it is a never ending battle. A holiday company further down the coast in Suffolk has funded and is continuing to fund sea defences for the beach at its centre, but there are those who feel that by protecting one area you just move the problem further down the coast. The sea will have its way eventually!

It will only take one storm to settle the issue. The way the weather has been in recent winters probably means sooner rather than later and any money spent will only put of the inevitable by a short time. I saw the damage done on the North Norfolk coast after one storm a few years back. The damage was enormous, no defence would have worked.

Andy

Rose,
Our house was on the front...marine parade ...and I used to get loads of sand up the 4 flights of stairs as children could run over from the beach to go to the toilet etc.
Was a lovely flat beach,but not safe for bathing,which some ignored the signs .
My cafe was Llanaber end of the prom where it was safe.

The stretch of rail by Llanaber has always been dodgy.my children went on the school train every day to Harlech.
I don't remember the area being run down as we used to go on the miniature railway which was then owned by a friend of ours, Mr Wilkins.

I haven't been back for a long time and I would surely see a difference from the lovely place I remember. :-(

Brenda we would often walk up that end of the prom during holidays, to take a look at the 'babbling brook' as we called it, then back along the beach looking in the pools by the breakwaters. Happy days. :-)