General Chat

I will admit we don't really need the fuel allowance as things stand at the moment. So I have found a way to solve it in our family by dividing it between the Grandchildren who are, in two cases married with children, on low wages but with parental help in their own homes, and in the third case living with his fiance in a rented home, also on a low wage. that way it has gone to help with the fuel bills of the young who do need it. The £10 has also been given to one of them who is driving long distance to deliver Christmas presents to family (well that and a bit more). I guess the TV licence money over the year is also given out to the Grandchildren and Great nieces. I am not saying this to say how good we are but to demonstrate how others in our position may be doing the same. If we didn't have those allowances we wouldn't be able to help them as much. the bus pass we do use, we go into town on average once a week, sometimes it is more, we use it to get to hospital, chiropodist. It saves us adding to congestion on the roads, frees up parking for others and puts money into the local economy when we spend in the shops in town (and we do, always). We are lucky, we have an excellent 10-15 minute bus service.

Young people (and their parents and others) fought against the introduction of university fees and lost that battle, although NOT every student in the UK has to pay those fees. We all fight our own battles so pensioners are entitled to do the same.

As far as rental housing is concerned, In our area there are few suitable bungalows for the aged. I believe an older pensioner must have a bedroom for visiting family and have the means to supply a bedroom for a full-time carer. In many cases in this area housing for the elderly consists of, at best, a two-bedroomed bungalow with kitchen, sitting room and bathroom. I have visited friends in two relatively new bungalows where there was no room in the kitchen for a table and a couple of chairs. The sitting room was too small to contain a dining arrangement and there was little choice but to turn that second very small bedroom into a dining room. This entailed carrying food through the sitting room - difficult for some; one couple bought a wheeled trolley. In fact, some bungalows for the elderly in this area have only one bedroom which means that there is no room for separation if one of a couple is quite ill. I believe that if local authorities insisted on better designs they would find more housing released for families.

As far as private housing is concerned, often people have done without in order to pay a mortgage when peers were paying a lower rental in social housing and thus were able to afford holidays, bigger cars, more nights out, more gifts for their children.

Those same people face having to lose the value of their homes to care fees while local authorities pay for others (and recently it has been reported that our area has the most expensive care in the country). Sure, there are some who could never have afforded to buy their homes to lose the lot to care home management (and I do not mean staff salaries) but I fail to see why some who have gone without ought to be penalised. In the same way, if one has saved toward a private pension that, too, would be taken to provide care - but that is what pensions are for, to help in old age. I know people whose children have gone without through childhood because they thought that the sale of the family home would go some way to helping their children onto the housing ladder, only to find that, after all, they had not been able to help their children in this respect. Their sense of unfairness must be high as they question why that deferred gratification was not worth it.

The world is not fair.

If you want to change the system or you do not want the system to be changed it means that particular groups must band together but there is little of that since the 1980s.

Perhaps I don't see how a cheaper TV licence at 75 (that was news to me because I thought it was 80) or the £10 Christmas gift is essential to everyone but they WILL be to some people and I do realise that.

In this area cheaper 'council rates/tax' is only available to a single pensioner living on his/her own. Usage of power is the same no matter how many occupants there are and the government recognises the needs of older people in wintertime; that other countries do not do so is beyond our remit. While I recognise that not everyone may currently need a heating allowance, there are plenty of older, frail people who rely on it. One fights for the right to retain it as 'there but for the grace of God .....'

I have gone on long enough but life is not fair and we fight for what we believe in as much as we can. The world belongs to every living thing in it, not just to the young.

A bus every 10-15 mins. That is not even dreamable about. We get one every 2-3 HOURS. (Don't know if we will even get those after April).

I don't expect the bonus, fuel allowance, etc - it is just something that happens. Personally, I thought the £10 bonus was a bit of joke and should be scrapped but now my shopping costs have gone up because the 2 coeliacs in my house have had their prescriptions halved, some areas have lost them altogether. So we will need the bus and the bus pass to be able to buy them a loaf of bread! That £10 will buy them 2 1/2 loaves!

Rollo thinks that over 70's should have some sort of paid employment and then they would be eligible to vote. Meaning, presumably, that those who don't work at that age are feeble minded. So why was the upper age for jury service raised to 75?

Dare I just ask.
When the new basic pension rate comes into force in April, will the recipients of the new rate also get the Winter Fuel payment, free bus passes etc.
Surely it would be better all round to pay everyone at the new rate & dispense with all the add ons including the Christmas bonus.
Or would that be giving pensioners too much liberty to decide how their money should be spent.

"You "expect" extraordinarily cheap rail travel" (Sylvia)

Fat chance.

The UK has easily the most expensive public transport in the EU. That especially applies to train fares even with a 30% discount after shelling out for a Rail Card.

Bus services are no better - the subsidy for rural buses has been sharply cut back (zero in Hampshire for instance) , The high cost of and. lack of public transport especially away from the major cities is causing a lot of hardship for both the young and old or anybody without car keys in their pocket..

Meanwhile the party which was once the property of McAlpine's Fusileers has got back to major road building all over the place with areas of great beauty / important to wild life top of the list. It is also going to finance an all private railway from Oxford to Cambridge. A proper railway from Leeds to Manchester ? Reopen the Southampton - Hythe line? You have gotta be kidding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPrixYOTNHw

Wisechild – we might have to wait until the female state retirement age reaches parity with the male to work out exactly is going on.

A male who was 65 after the beginning of the 2016 tax year now has the new ‘basic pension’ which is actually a misnomer, For some people its been reduced because they ‘opted out’ for a number of years into a private or company pension whilst for other’s (if they were well paid) are also in receipt of what was known as the SSP. The Government claim that everyone under the new system will receive at least what they would have done under the old. It was assumed that the opted-outers would have the short-fall made up by their second pension.

This male year group were able to claim the winter fuel allowance when they were at the same age as the then female retirement of 61 and a bit & were also able to claim the bus pass. Once they are eligible for the state OAP, they also get the £10 Christmas bonus.

I am so glad I don't have to work all these different rates and addons out. No wonder mistakes are made.

Rollo ........

One of my friends travels all over England by train, usually first class. She has travelled from the Norfolk area to Liverpool for as little as £10, first class, reserved seat. She never pays more than a few pounds for long distance travel

Do you not call that cheap train travel?

I certainly do!!

She's not the only one. Other friends always seem to travel by train very cheaply!

Please ask her how she did it, cos The Locals haven't got a chance at getting that rate!
Yes, there are book 6 weeks in advance reduced seats available but you'd be hard pressed to get anything like she paid. First Class for £10 would be a dream.

Have a play around with https://www.thetrainline.com/ to get some idea of fares

First Class is always premium priced. You can get cheap (standard class) tickets if you book in advance, off-peak, or snap up last minute deals. Split tickets can also save money, as can railcards (of which there are many kinds).

UK Railways have a wildly complicated way of charging for tickets. Also remember there are upwards of a dozen companies providing rail services but none of them own any track. The track is owned by the Govt through "NetworkRail". NetworkRail used to be private but had to be brought back under govt control after some nasty accidents due to cost cutting (old name Railtrack). Now the govt wants to sell off Network Rail... The company gets its money from the train companies who have to rent the line space and govt loans. It is in the red to billion$. It is not allowed to charge the real cost of the tracks to the train cos 'cos they make profits and lots of govt supporters have shares...The taxpayer takes on the Railtrack losses.

anyway the fares

the fares are supposedly based on supply and demand so there is no flat rate by distance for instance. All and any trips of , say, 50 miles to London will cost much more than their equivalents in Cornwall or Devon. Most people buy their tickets through smartphone apps, some by the station ticket machines which can be relied upon to serve up the most expensive option. A dwindling minority use the rapidly disappearing trad ticket offices.

If you can plan a trip from say, Brighton to Edinburh all off peak six weeks in advance then sure you may be able to get a great deal like your friend. Life is not like that for most people though. Those who have to travel at peak times get royally screwed and only get a seat on months with a double blue moon. If you have the misfortune to travel from Brighton to London it is a lottery if the train turns up at all.

If you have to travel on or near the same day with at least one leg peak times when you buy the ticket then cost wise it is usually far cheaper to fly if possible. The cost will be stunning. Indeed a peak both ways out Monday back Tuesday London-Newcastle 1st class ticket costs more than a budget return to JFK.

Which leaves of course those who can plan their travel a week or so ahead off peak - mainly pensioners and kids during vacation. They get around a 50% discount on the standard fare - it is still a lot more than your tenner for most trips.

As well as commuting into London all of the UK large city commuting trains are crammed like sardine cans and the fares rise and rise they are NOT cheap! Long distance trains tend to be cram full as well and standing for 200 miles is not unusual. Owning share in the train companies is like owning gold bars bearing interest.

Oh yes I nearly forgot. The train companies are not allowed to buy trains. Instead they have to buy them on lease from rolling stock companies which are widly profitable and very secretive.

This whole mess was created by John Major PM. T May's lot are working out even more fiendish ways to gouge people and ensure they have a bad day. The roads are even worse than the train which is why the trains are so crammed full.

The typical Brit spends 2 - 4 hours each day traveling to and form work. When Network Rail is sold off to the Chinese on a 100 year lease I hope they will all be happy.

Just to finish up the sorry story of Brit rail. The train companies are getting ( on the never never) shed loads of shiny new trains. 90% are imported - so much for the prospect of the UK post brexit. The management of the electrification LOndon - Bristol/Cardiff is so bad that the new trains have to be modified to have diesel engines as well 'cos the electrics will be 5 years late.

Please remember all of this is run by the same govt which is promising a smooth red and white blue brexit in less than 19 months. It will be more of a farce than Fawlty Towers.

I can add to the train comments, Sylvia.

I have actually bought a £10 single ticket plus a £5 subsidy to travel first class from Durham to Birmingham to visit my brother when he lived there. It was £20 for second class travel on the return journey with no First Class available.

This was courtesy of the Daily Mail who made available this limited special offer for travel one February many years ago. I was amazed, and I would be delighted if this was offered again but I have not been so lucky.

The comments about booking ahead are right but there are severe restrictions on availability and once that handful of tickets is sold, prices are sky high.

My own children often have to travel to London on business; depending on what part of London, they have flown or driven themselves. It is always cheaper than rail travel even when factoring in parking costs, tube and taxis.

There is no one overall British Rail now, Sylvia, and a couple of years ago when travelling to Liverpool from Durham our early morning departure was cancelled. We were told to catch a certain train to York and change there. Another train to York came into the station and I asked why we could not board that earlier one. I was told that the train company across the country only had a reciprocal agreement with the company running the later train and if we wanted to go on the earlier train it would cost us. It seems ludicrous that there is no longer the 'joined-up' thinking in the train-line that existed when I was much younger, especially when costs are so exorbitant.

When I first started family tree research (c.2002) it necessitated trips to London as the indexes weren't online then. I planned a handful of journeys in advance and got Apex train tickets for £30 return (1st class!) from Chippenham to Paddington. Amazing value, got free coffee from the trolley too. This was off-peak of course. I think Apex died a death ages ago, no doubt the trolley has too... :-D

Booking at least a month in advance gets the best discounts. No use turning up on Christmas Eve and expecting any favours.

There are cheaper tickets, even at shorter notice, you just have to look for them. I have just done quick search now and found the following in a matter of seconds, putting in some dates off the top of my head for this month.

London - Peterborough Mon 12 December £11.00 . Peterborough - London 29th December £15.00

When comparing train fares to car travel, you need to use something like the HMRC Business rate for the mileage, to take into the cost of the car itself, insurance etc. not just the cost of the petrol, Currently this is 45p per mile for the first 10k miles per year then 25p thereafter. On this basis a round trip by car Peterborough to London (160 miles) costs £72.

This is considerably more than just the cost of the fuel, which again using the HMRC figures is 11p per mile for 1,601-2,000cc Diesel car works out at £17.60

IGP is right. It's no good turning up at the last minute and expecting cheap rail tickets.

Sylvia, you mentioned Norfolk to Liverpool - approx 220 miles. I checked the train fares from Durham to Peterborough, a shorter distance of approx 187 miles for 12 December, the first date used by IGP for Peterborough to London. Prices vary according to time of travel, eg

Dep 0838: £48.50 (limited number available) Single Fare
Dep 0848: £111.50. Single Fare

Timing is everything.

Remember, these are for a shorter distance than that quoted by you, Sylvia.

I don't think insurance can be factored into a journey to London unless it is undertaken every day but certainly fuel costs and wear and tear have to be included.

Is it any wonder why my children fly or drive when travelling to the capital from the North East?

If train fares were always as cheap as those that your friends managed (and I managed once), there would be fewer cars on the roads and more trains on the tracks. I would love that to happen but I'm not giving up my car in the meantime.

Oh my, we have digressed from Barbra's original post and I am afraid that I am one of the culprits. :-0

Assuming the long distance car journey is an occasional event, insurance, depreciation and wear & tear are irrelevant.

One other aspect to bear in mind is that a family car will hold up to 5 people including the driver. Therefore the cost per person reduces rather than increases for a similar train journey.

I'm not entirely convinced that internal air travel is more cost efficient than a train journey. You'd need to add in the price of traveling to the airport, car parking if appropriate, then to the ultimate destination. Security and check in procedures add to the overall time. Mind you, the same does apply if you travel by train. The only advantage is if you are within walking distance of both terminals.

Watching a bit of TV last night .Dads Army x Siberian Tigers .both were repeats & one programme I do enjoy last one till New years Eve Casualty ? If we have to pay again for licence over 75 .will start reading more as licence is not worth the money its just .a load of repeats & rubbish :-(

The BBC has TV channels plus national and local radio for the cost of the licence.

The other TV broadcasters are not free, the advertisers are asked for huge amounts of money to put adverts in popular shows. Everyone who buys the products that are advertised on TV are paying for the adverts and so paying for ITV, Channel 4 and 5.


The problem with the free licence is that us baby boomers have surprised the government again. We surprised them when we went to school and had to have large classes, my year in my primary school had 2 classes both over 40 children in. We again surprised them when we started to become pensioners. Pity there wasn't a way of registering us at birth so the governments would have been able to accommodate us
. :-D

that are such slow learners Pat!!
:-D