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ZoeCharles
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7 Dec 2016 20:18 |
Hello!
I'm not sure where the best place for this post to go is but I was hoping someone could help. I'm trying to see if there is any way for searching historical information for a place? I recently found out that my great 3x's grandfather owned Woods Farm until he died in 1877. His wife was then given the farm. I am trying to work out how he came to own it and what it's history is.
Thank you
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SylviaInCanada
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7 Dec 2016 20:35 |
Try Google it, for a start.
Some censuses can be searched by address, so you would get a 10 year "snap view" of who had lived there before.
Are you sure he "owned" the farm?
My OH's family farmed in Westmorland for more than 5 generations on the same farm, but they were never more than tenant owners .......... and that is not made clear on any census.
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AnnCardiff
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7 Dec 2016 20:56 |
Woods Farm Christmas Trees Solihull
www.woodsfarm.co.uk
Woods Farm is Open for Business. ... Woods Farm Christmas Trees Located at Bills Lane, Shirley, West Midlands, B90 2PP. Phone: 0121 733 2633. http ...
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AnnCardiff
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7 Dec 2016 20:59 |
The railway came to Shirley in 1900 and a Mr Warwick who lived at Wood Farm, Bills Lane, was largely responsible for it doing so. Shirley station was actually opened in 1908, bringing lots of changes to the area. In the late 18th century and early 19th century the land around the station was mainly used for pig farming. There were also several mills. Shirley Mill was quite a landmark, with its large sails it stood proud on a hill for all to see until the late 1950s or early 1960s, when it was demolished. All that remains now is the mill pond and the ducks and geese.
Towns and Villages Around Solihull | Shirley
www.visitoruk.com/Solihull/shirley-C592-V18305.html
In the early days most of the inhabitants of Shirley were farmers or farm labourers. ... to Shirley in 1900 and a Mr Warwick who lived at Wood Farm, Bills Lane, ...
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LondonBelle
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8 Dec 2016 07:16 |
Is this your Ancestor?
Extract from The Staffordshire Sentinel, Saturday, August 25th, 1877 - Family Notices, Deaths
On the 15th Inst., at Wood's Farm, Shirley, near Birmingham, very suddenly, Robert, eldest son of the late Mr Joseph Gillman, of Wyaston, Derbyshire,and Calton Moor Hall, Staffordshire
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ZoeCharles
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8 Dec 2016 07:40 |
Google was the first place I looked. Yes that's my ancestor.
It says on the probate record that the farm was left to his wife, if I am reading it correctly
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LondonBelle
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8 Dec 2016 09:48 |
There are lots of Adverts in the papers of that time showing various things being sold from the Farm ie cattle etc there mght be details of the Freehold being auctioned too
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ZoeCharles
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8 Dec 2016 10:17 |
How do I search census via the address? X
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LondonBelle
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8 Dec 2016 10:42 |
On Ancestry you put the name in ' Keywords', on Find My Past they have sections where you can input Name of House, Name of Street etc
The problem is that not always the name of the property is on the Census; for instance Robert & Emma Gillman and Family in 1871 Census are found living in Bills Lane and there is no name of a Farm.
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AnnCardiff
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8 Dec 2016 11:27 |
Robert Gillman England and Wales Census, 1871 Name Robert Gillman Event Type Census Event Date 1871 Event Place Shirley, Solihull, Warwickshire, England Enumeration District 5 Gender Male Age 53 Marital Status Married Occupation Farmer Relationship to Head of Household Head Birth Year (Estimated) 1818 Birthplace Snelston, Derbyshire Entry Number 11 Affiliate Image Identifier GBC/1871/3189/0196
Robert Gillman Head M 53 Snelston, Derbyshire Emma Gillman Wife F 41 Birmingham, Warwickshire Frederick Gillman Son M 19 Birmingham, Warwickshire Robert Gillman Son M 12 Shirley, Warwickshire Mary J Gillman Daughter F 2 Shirley, Warwickshire Amelia Dyke Servant F 24 Knowle, Warwickshire Arthur Nightingale Servant M 18 Birmingham, Warwickshire
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AnnCardiff
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8 Dec 2016 11:29 |
Robert Gillman England and Wales Census, 1851 Name Robert Gillman Event Type Census Event Date 1851 Event Place Aston, Warwickshire, England Registration District Aston Residence Note Stratford Road Gender Male Age 33 Marital Status Married Occupation Milk Man Relationship to Head of Household Head Birth Year (Estimated) 1818 Birthplace South Mill, Derbyshire Page Number 3 Registration Number HO107 Piece/Folio 2060 / 597 Affiliate Record Type Household
Robert Gillman Head M 33 South Mill, Derbyshire Emma Gillman Wife F 22 Birmingham, Warwickshire
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AnnCardiff
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8 Dec 2016 11:32 |
Robert Joseph Gilman England Births and Christenings Name Robert Joseph Gilman Gender Male Christening Date 09 Nov 1817 Christening Place SNELSTON,DERBY,ENGLAND Father's Name Joseph Gilman Mother's Name Mary
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AnnCardiff
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8 Dec 2016 11:34 |
Joseph Gilman mentioned in the record of Joseph Gilman and Mary Mottram Name Joseph Gilman Spouse's Name Mary Mottram Event Date 14 Jul 1814 Event Place Saint Oswald,Ashbourne,Derby,England
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ZoeCharles
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8 Dec 2016 11:44 |
It's Robert joseph Gillman born in 1817 that lived and died at Woods farm. His son was called Robert Gillman too. R. J gillmans father was Joseph Gillman. Very confusing! It said in the probate record that he left effects under £800 so I'm guessing it would imply that they were wealthy? He wife lived off "her own personal finances" for the rest of her life.
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ZoeCharles
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8 Dec 2016 12:45 |
On the 1871 census it is showing that the gillmans had two servants. Im guessing that if he wasn't the owner then he wouldn't have servants. I know that's not proof that he owned it. Just a thought
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SylviaInCanada
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8 Dec 2016 20:58 |
Zoe ...................
farm workers were often called "Servants" in the classification.
It probably means he had a Cow man and/or an Agricultural Labourer.
They might have been able to afford a young girl as General Domestic Servant ... wages were so low that you sometimes find even a coal miner's wife will have a General Domestic Servant. In fact, every so-called middle class home and some higher income "lower class" ones would have at least one General Domestic Servant
In the case of a farm, such a servant would probably be responsible for getting all breakfasts, cleaning the house, setting and lighting fires before the family got up, helping the Farmer's Wife in cooking meals, but also helping in milking, making cheese and butter, collecting eggs, feeding the hens, etc etc.
This is the 1871?
1871 Census
Name: Robert Gillman Age: 53 Estimated birth year: abt 1818 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Emma Gillman Gender: Male Where born: Smilaton, Derbyshire, England [Snelston, Derbyshire, England] Civil Parish: Solihull Ecclesiastical parish: St James Town: Shirley County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Registration district: Solihull Sub-registration district: Solihull ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Household schedule number: 103 Piece: 3189 Folio: 97 Page Number: 19
Robert Gillman 53 Emma Gillman 41 Frederick Gillman 19 Robert Gillman 12 Mary J Gillman 2 Amelia Dyke 24 <<<<<<<< General Domestic Servant Arthur Nightingale 18 Farm Servant, Indoor
Arthur would have been helping in farm jobs around the farmhouse and barns ...... eg as cow man, pig man, etc etc. Otherwise he would have been described as Ag Lab.
I notice that Frederick G was a Private in 2nd troop H & G ..... otherwise he might well have been shown as Servant, as were many of the farmers' children in my OH's family.
I notice that there is no indication as to how large the farm was ......... it is common to see the acreage stated.
In other words ............ not necessarily wealthy but having to employ workers, and certainly not proof that he was or was not the owner
Ah .........
In the 1861 Census, it states that he is the farmer of 35 acres, and they have just one servant, a 13 year boy Called Benj Harris. There is not even a General Domestic Servant to help Emma with 2 young children ..........
Name Age Robert Gillman 43 Emma Gillman 31 Fredk Gillner 9 Robt Gillner 2 Benj Harris 13 Servant
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SylviaInCanada
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8 Dec 2016 21:09 |
I'm actually wondering if Emma brought money into the marriage.
He's a milk man in 1851, yet manages to have a farm by 1861.
I think that makes it more likely that he was a tenant farmer than a farm owner
AH ..........
you are not reading the Probate Record correctly
You need to buy the will itself to discover how he left his "effects", and whether they included the farm itself.
The Probate Record just states that his wife was "granted Administration of the effects of ...... "
That means he did not leave a will, and that she had applied to be granted the rights to dispose of his estate according to whatever wishes he had expressed while he was alive.
You can see the difference in wording by looking at the Probate Record below Robert's, where it says "The Will of .......... was proved at Gloucester by ......... Widow the Relict the sole Executrix"
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ZoeCharles
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8 Dec 2016 23:24 |
OK that all makes sense. So the estate that he left was not necessarily the farm just finances?
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SylviaInCanada
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9 Dec 2016 01:12 |
His "estate" would include money, but also much more likely that the major part would be the estimated value of furniture, clothes, household items, "jewellry" (ie, tiepins, cufflinks, pocket watch), he possibly owned some cattle or a horse, etc etc etc
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