General Chat

Hello!

I'm not sure where the best place for this post to go is but I was hoping someone could help. I'm trying to see if there is any way for searching historical information for a place? I recently found out that my great 3x's grandfather owned Woods Farm until he died in 1877. His wife was then given the farm. I am trying to work out how he came to own it and what it's history is.

Thank you

Try Google it, for a start.

Some censuses can be searched by address, so you would get a 10 year "snap view" of who had lived there before.

Are you sure he "owned" the farm?

My OH's family farmed in Westmorland for more than 5 generations on the same farm, but they were never more than tenant owners .......... and that is not made clear on any census.

Woods Farm Christmas Trees Solihull


www.woodsfarm.co.uk

Woods Farm is Open for Business. ... Woods Farm Christmas Trees Located at Bills Lane, Shirley, West Midlands, B90 2PP. Phone: 0121 733 2633. http ...

The railway came to Shirley in 1900 and a Mr Warwick who lived at Wood Farm, Bills Lane, was largely responsible for it doing so. Shirley station was actually opened in 1908, bringing lots of changes to the area. In the late 18th century and early 19th century the land around the station was mainly used for pig farming. There were also several mills. Shirley Mill was quite a landmark, with its large sails it stood proud on a hill for all to see until the late 1950s or early 1960s, when it was demolished. All that remains now is the mill pond and the ducks and geese.

Towns and Villages Around Solihull | Shirley


www.visitoruk.com/Solihull/shirley-C592-V18305.html

In the early days most of the inhabitants of Shirley were farmers or farm labourers. ... to Shirley in 1900 and a Mr Warwick who lived at Wood Farm, Bills Lane, ...

Is this your Ancestor?

Extract from The Staffordshire Sentinel, Saturday, August 25th, 1877 - Family Notices, Deaths

On the 15th Inst., at Wood's Farm, Shirley, near Birmingham, very suddenly, Robert, eldest son of the late Mr Joseph Gillman, of Wyaston, Derbyshire,and Calton Moor Hall,
Staffordshire

Google was the first place I looked. Yes that's my ancestor.

It says on the probate record that the farm was left to his wife, if I am reading it correctly

There are lots of Adverts in the papers of that time showing various things being sold from the Farm ie cattle etc there mght be details of the Freehold being auctioned too

How do I search census via the address? X

On Ancestry you put the name in ' Keywords', on Find My Past they have sections where you can input Name of House, Name of Street etc

The problem is that not always the name of the property is on the Census; for instance Robert & Emma Gillman and Family in 1871 Census are found living in Bills Lane and there is no name of a Farm.

Robert Gillman

England and Wales Census, 1871

Name Robert Gillman
Event Type Census
Event Date 1871
Event Place Shirley, Solihull, Warwickshire, England
Enumeration District 5
Gender Male
Age 53
Marital Status Married
Occupation Farmer
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Birth Year (Estimated) 1818
Birthplace Snelston, Derbyshire
Entry Number 11
Affiliate Image Identifier GBC/1871/3189/0196

Robert Gillman Head M 53 Snelston, Derbyshire
Emma Gillman Wife F 41 Birmingham, Warwickshire
Frederick Gillman Son M 19 Birmingham, Warwickshire
Robert Gillman Son M 12 Shirley, Warwickshire
Mary J Gillman Daughter F 2 Shirley, Warwickshire
Amelia Dyke Servant F 24 Knowle, Warwickshire
Arthur Nightingale Servant M 18 Birmingham, Warwickshire

Robert Gillman

England and Wales Census, 1851

Name Robert Gillman
Event Type Census
Event Date 1851
Event Place Aston, Warwickshire, England
Registration District Aston
Residence Note Stratford Road
Gender Male
Age 33
Marital Status Married
Occupation Milk Man
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Birth Year (Estimated) 1818
Birthplace South Mill, Derbyshire
Page Number 3
Registration Number HO107
Piece/Folio 2060 / 597
Affiliate Record Type Household


Robert Gillman Head M 33 South Mill, Derbyshire
Emma Gillman Wife F 22 Birmingham, Warwickshire

Robert Joseph Gilman

England Births and Christenings
Name Robert Joseph Gilman
Gender Male
Christening Date 09 Nov 1817
Christening Place SNELSTON,DERBY,ENGLAND
Father's Name Joseph Gilman
Mother's Name Mary

Joseph Gilman

mentioned in the record of Joseph Gilman and Mary Mottram

Name Joseph Gilman
Spouse's Name Mary Mottram
Event Date 14 Jul 1814
Event Place Saint Oswald,Ashbourne,Derby,England

It's Robert joseph Gillman born in 1817 that lived and died at Woods farm. His son was called Robert Gillman too. R. J gillmans father was Joseph Gillman. Very confusing! It said in the probate record that he left effects under £800 so I'm guessing it would imply that they were wealthy? He wife lived off "her own personal finances" for the rest of her life.

On the 1871 census it is showing that the gillmans had two servants. Im guessing that if he wasn't the owner then he wouldn't have servants. I know that's not proof that he owned it. Just a thought

Zoe ...................

farm workers were often called "Servants" in the classification.

It probably means he had a Cow man and/or an Agricultural Labourer.

They might have been able to afford a young girl as General Domestic Servant ... wages were so low that you sometimes find even a coal miner's wife will have a General Domestic Servant. In fact, every so-called middle class home and some higher income "lower class" ones would have at least one General Domestic Servant

In the case of a farm, such a servant would probably be responsible for getting all breakfasts, cleaning the house, setting and lighting fires before the family got up, helping the Farmer's Wife in cooking meals, but also helping in milking, making cheese and butter, collecting eggs, feeding the hens, etc etc.

This is the 1871?

1871 Census

Name: Robert Gillman
Age: 53
Estimated birth year: abt 1818
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Emma Gillman
Gender: Male
Where born: Smilaton, Derbyshire, England
[Snelston, Derbyshire, England]
Civil Parish: Solihull
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
Town: Shirley
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Registration district: Solihull
Sub-registration district: Solihull
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 103
Piece: 3189
Folio: 97
Page Number: 19

Robert Gillman 53
Emma Gillman 41
Frederick Gillman 19
Robert Gillman 12
Mary J Gillman 2
Amelia Dyke 24 <<<<<<<< General Domestic Servant
Arthur Nightingale 18 Farm Servant, Indoor


Arthur would have been helping in farm jobs around the farmhouse and barns ...... eg as cow man, pig man, etc etc. Otherwise he would have been described as Ag Lab.

I notice that Frederick G was a Private in 2nd troop H & G ..... otherwise he might well have been shown as Servant, as were many of the farmers' children in my OH's family.

I notice that there is no indication as to how large the farm was ......... it is common to see the acreage stated.

In other words ............ not necessarily wealthy but having to employ workers, and certainly not proof that he was or was not the owner


Ah .........

In the 1861 Census, it states that he is the farmer of 35 acres, and they have just one servant, a 13 year boy Called Benj Harris. There is not even a General Domestic Servant to help Emma with 2 young children ..........

Name Age
Robert Gillman 43
Emma Gillman 31
Fredk Gillner 9
Robt Gillner 2
Benj Harris 13 Servant

I'm actually wondering if Emma brought money into the marriage.

He's a milk man in 1851, yet manages to have a farm by 1861.

I think that makes it more likely that he was a tenant farmer than a farm owner


AH ..........

you are not reading the Probate Record correctly

You need to buy the will itself to discover how he left his "effects", and whether they included the farm itself.

The Probate Record just states that his wife was "granted Administration of the effects of ...... "

That means he did not leave a will, and that she had applied to be granted the rights to dispose of his estate according to whatever wishes he had expressed while he was alive.


You can see the difference in wording by looking at the Probate Record below Robert's, where it says "The Will of .......... was proved at Gloucester by ......... Widow the Relict the sole Executrix"

OK that all makes sense. So the estate that he left was not necessarily the farm just finances?

His "estate" would include money, but also much more likely that the major part would be the estimated value of furniture, clothes, household items, "jewellry" (ie, tiepins, cufflinks, pocket watch), he possibly owned some cattle or a horse, etc etc etc