General Chat

Thank you so much for your hard work and patience. Very grateful , Jane x

BUT I POSTED your great grandmother's marriage 26 Feb 4:07 am .... and all the information on the chidlren's births

to repeat ................

This looks like your great grandparents marriage ........ your gt grandmother was called Kathleen on the registration.

It also looks as though they did not get married until after Joan's birth

Marriages Dec 1910 (>99%)

Hunnings Kathleen W.Derby 8b 841
Roberts Robert W.Derby 8b 841


They were probably married in the West derby Registry Office. From Lancashire bmds ...........

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1910
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
HUNNINGS Kathleen ROBERTS Robert West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/264/113


the children's birth registrations .........

ROBERTS, JOAN HUNNINGS
GRO Reference: 1910 S Quarter in ST ASAPH Volume 11B Page 284

ROBERTS, VIOLET HUNNINGS
GRO Reference: 1914 S Quarter in ST. ASAPH Volume 11B Page 566

Births Mar 1920 (>99%)
Roberts Eileen M Hunnings St.Asaph 11b 605


If Eileen was born late in 1919, her birth would not be registered until early 1920

----------
I then followed this by posting the 1911 Census showing your gt grandparents living with Robert's father .............

1911 Census

Name: Robert Roberts
Age in 1911: 31
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Abergele, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Rhuddlan
Search Photos: Search for 'Rhuddlan' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Street address: Rhydorddwy Wen Rhyl
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 1
Estimated Marriage Year: 1910
Occupation: Farmers Son Working On Farm
Registration district: St Asaph
Registration District Number: 623
Sub-registration district: St Asaph
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 93
Piece: 34126

Thomas Roberts 59 b.ca 1852, Abergele, Denbighshire, Widowed, Married 34 years, Farmer
Robert Roberts 31
Katherine Mary Roberts 28 b.ca 1883, Rayne, Isle of Wight, Daughter-in-Law, Married 1 year
Minnie Roberts 27 b.ca 1884, Abergele, Daughter
Hugh Davies 36 Waggoner on Farm
William Roberts Sugleby 19 Cow Man
Joan Roberts 9/12 b.ca 1910, Rhuddlan, Flint, Granddaughter


Robert and Katherine say on the image that that they have been married 1 year 9 months

The census was taken on nights of 2nd and 3rd April, so 1 year 9 months before that would have been about July 1909 ..............................

which doesn't fit with the marriage record that I found, yet that marriage in West Derby is the only one that shows up for Robert Roberts and a Kath* Hunnings

----------
If you are confused by my comment that the information on the 1911 did not match with the actual date of the marriage ........... all that means is that they lied about how long they had been married!

Still struggling to find my great grandmothers marriage. Can anyone tell me if the Welsh Presbyterian churches marriages are included in the BDM results. Thank you to all who has assisted so far. Jane

from FindMyPast ..........


England Marriages 1538-1973

First name(s) Henry
Last name Hunnings
Name note -
Age 37
Marriage year 1880
Marriage date 18 Mar 1880
Marriage place Wolverton
Father's first name(s) William Butten
Father's last name Hunnings
Spouse's first name(s) Margaret Ann
Spouse's last name Ridley
Spouse's birth year 1861
Spouse's birth date 1861
Spouse's father's first name(s) Edmund
Spouse's father's last name Ridley
Residence Wolverton, Buckingham, England
County Buckinghamshire
Country England
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973
Category Life Events (BDMs)
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from United Kingdom



from ancestry .........

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995

Name: Henry Hunning
[Henry HunningS]
Death Date: 4 May 1886
Death Place: Southampton, England
Probate Date: 28 Jul 1886
Registry: Winchester

from image:-

Administration of the Personal Estate of the Reverend Henry Hunnings late of 20 Carlton Road, Fitzhugh, in the County of Southampton, Clerk, who died 4 May 1886 at 20 Carlton Road was granted at Winchester to Margaret Ann Hunnings of 20 Carlton Road, Widow, the Relict

Personal Estate £811 17s 6d
Resworn March 1887 £1,222 12s 6d


Margaret was quite wealthy :-D


Oh dear, Henry apparently committed suicide ..............

newspapers, on FMP .............

13 May 1886 - Cornishman - Penzance, Cornwall

The Suicide of a Clergyman at Southampton formed the subject of a coroner's inquiry on Friday evening.

The Rev. Henry Hunnings, chaplain to the Royal South Hants Infirmary, and formerly curate to Eling, Hants and Ryd,e Isle of Wight, had been suffering from hemorrhage of the lungs.

On Tuesday he was unofficially notified that the governors of the infirmary had decided to request him to resign, and that failing his refusal he would be dismissed. This preyed upon his mind very much, and he said that it would be his death-blow.

His conduct became strange through the day, and he struck his wife, with whom he had always been on the best of terms, and also his child. Towards evening he went to his bedroom, and sent his wife to order some oysters for supper. When she returned in a short time he was lying on the bed insensible, and he died in a few minutes.

The post mortem examination showed that he had taken a considerable amount of cyanide of potassium, which he had in his possession for use in amateur photography. A verdict of "Suicide in an unsound state of mind" was returned.

-----


There are several other reports in other newspapers.

This looks like Katherine Mary in 1901, living with her mother and step-father

1910 Census

Name: Katherine M Hunnings
Age: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1883
Relation to Head: Stepdaughter
Gender: Female
Mother: Margaret A Wood Taylor
Birth Place: Isle of Wight, Ryde
Civil Parish: Chapel Allerton
Search Photos: Search for 'Chapel Allerton' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: Chapel Allerton St Matthew
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: Chapeltown
ED, institution, or vessel: 29

Piece: 4251
Folio: 136
Page Number: 12
Household schedule number: 86

John M Wood Taylor 44 b.ca 1857, Radcliffe on Trent, Nottinghamshire, Living on Own Means
Margaret A Wood Taylor 39 b.ca 1862, Burton, Westmorland
Madiliene A M Wood Taylor 12 b.ca 1889, Leeds, Yorkshire
William Butters Hunnings 20 b.ca 1881, York, Yorkshire, Stepson
Katherine M Hunnings 18

Address:- 5 Norfolk Terrace


Marriages Dec 1887 (>99%)
HUNNINGS Margaret Ann Leeds 9b 648
Taylor John Montague W Leeds 9b 648



so Margaret's maiden name was Ridley .........

HUNNINGS, WILLIAM BUTTERS RIDLEY
GRO Reference: 1881 J Quarter in YORK Volume 09D Page 18


HUNNINGS, KATHERINE MARY RIDLEY
GRO Reference: 1882 S Quarter in ISLE OF WIGHT Volume 02B Page 605


Marriages Mar 1880 (>99%)

HUNNINGS Henry Potterspury 3b 54
RIDLEY Margaret Ann Potterspury 3b 54


Deaths Jun 1886 (>99%)
Hunnings Henry 43 S. Stoneham 2c 40



England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name: Katherine Mary Hunnings
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 11 Apr 1882
Baptism Date: 7 May 1882
Baptism Place: Holy Trinity, Ryde, Hampshire, England
Father: Henry Hunnings
Mother: Margaret Ann
FHL Film Number: 1470883


1891 Census

Name: Katherine M Hummings
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1883
Relation: Stepdaughter
Mother's name: Margaret A Taylor
Gender: Female
Where born: T W Aleidge, Porttand House
Civil Parish: Calverley with Farsley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Wilfreds
Town: Calverley
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Bradford
ED, institution, or vessel: 3

Piece: 3654
Folio: 44
Page Number: 5

John M W Taylor 32 b.ca 1859, Radcliffe Hall, Nottinghamshire, Living on Own Means
Margaret A Taylor 29 b.ca 1862, Burton, Westmorland
Madaleine A M W Taylor 2
William B Hummings 10 b.ca 1881, Searcroph Road Leeds, Yorkshire,
Katherine M Hummings 8

Address:- Woodhall Road



1881 Census

Name: Henry Hunnings
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Margerat Hunnings
Gender: Male
Where born: Totenham, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Rothwell
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address: 4 Bridge Field Ter
Marital Status: Married

Occupation: M A Curate Of Rothwell
Registration district: Hunslet
ED, institution, or vessel: 3

Piece: 4494
Folio: 68
Page Number: 22

Henry Hunnings 37
Margerat Hunnings 22 b.ca 1859, Burton, Westmorland
William Hunnings 9 months b.ca 1880, Rothwell, Yorskhire
Clara S. Coulson 13 Domestic Servant

for our help and information ..............


1911 Census

Name: Robert Roberts
Age in 1911: 31
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Abergele, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Rhuddlan
Search Photos: Search for 'Rhuddlan' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Street address: Rhydorddwy Wen Rhyl
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 1
Estimated Marriage Year: 1910
Occupation: Farmers Son Working On Farm
Registration district: St Asaph
Registration District Number: 623
Sub-registration district: St Asaph
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 93
Piece: 34126

Thomas Roberts 59 b.ca 1852, Abergele, Denbighshire, Widowed, Married 34 years, Farmer
Robert Roberts 31
Katherine Mary Roberts 28 b.ca 1883, Rayne, Isle of Wight, Daughter-in-Law, Married 1 year
Minnie Roberts 27 b.ca 1884, Abergele, Daughter
Hugh Davies 36 Waggoner on Farm
William Roberts Sugleby 19 Cow Man
Joan Roberts 9/12 b.ca 1910, Rhuddlan, Flint, Granddaughter


Robert and Katherine say on the image that that they have been married 1 year 9 months

The census was taken on nights of 2nd and 3rd April, so 1 year 9 months before that would have been about July 1909 ..............................

which doesn't fit with the marriage record that I found, yet that marriage in West Derby is the only one that shows up for Robert Roberts and a Kath* Hunnings

This looks like your great grandparents marriage ........ your gt grandmother was called Kathleen on the registration.

It also looks as though they did not get married until after Joan's birth

Marriages Dec 1910 (>99%)

Hunnings Kathleen W.Derby 8b 841
Roberts Robert W.Derby 8b 841


They were probably married in the West derby Registry Office. From Lancashire bmds ...........

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1910
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
HUNNINGS Kathleen ROBERTS Robert West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/264/113


the children's birth registrations .........

ROBERTS, JOAN HUNNINGS
GRO Reference: 1910 S Quarter in ST ASAPH Volume 11B Page 284

ROBERTS, VIOLET HUNNINGS
GRO Reference: 1914 S Quarter in ST. ASAPH Volume 11B Page 566

Births Mar 1920 (>99%)
Roberts Eileen M Hunnings St.Asaph 11b 605


If Eileen was born late in 1919, her birth would not be registered until early 1920

Gosh that's all amazing. I've been clutching at the straws my grandmother told me. I'm 52 and the oldest surging member of my family so apart from the the post card and photo nothing else is fact. It's now obvious that I followed the wrong John Roberts sailing dates. The story I remember being told is different but may have become confused over the century.
Thomas and Sarah ran a farm called Criccin farm they were first language Welsh. They had two sons john and Robert and a daughter Minnie. Robert married my great grandmother Katherine Hunnings. They had three daughters Joan b.1910, Violet b.1914, Eileen b.1919(my grandmother). My grandmother always commented that they could have done without her! Joan was hit by a horse and cart and left seriously injured, Violet died aged six ,war broke out, no one paid their milk bill and subsequently they lost the farm. Robert was born in 181 and died aged 49. I've never heard mention of Edith or the uncle.

I'm trying to get my head around this couple! He evidently emigrated in 1907. You said family couldn't join him because of the war but that didn't start until 7 years later. She didn't emigrate until 1921 to join her fiance. Had they been engaged all that time? And what about the great aunt that you said was born 1910? Their child?

Edith's arrival in USA. She's going to join fiance John Roberts, Box 300, Rocksprings, Wyoming. Name of nearest relative at home was father John Roberts, Central Stores, Rhuddlain. So was she a Roberts who married a Roberts?

Edith Roberts

in the New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
View New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957

View image(s) of the ship

Name: Edith Roberts
Arrival Date: 25 May 1921
Birth Date: abt 1881
Birth Location: Wales
Birth Location Other: rhuddlain
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/ Nationality: Welsh
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Cameronia
Search Ship Database: Search for the Cameronia in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database

Could this be him in 1930? Wife Edith was also born Wales and emigrated 1921.

John Roberts

in the 1930 United States Federal Census
View 1930 United States Federal Census

View blank form

Name: John Roberts
Birth Year: abt 1878
Gender: Male
Race: White
Birthplace: Wales
Marital Status: Married
Relation to Head of House: Head
Home in 1930: Big Island, Sweetwater, Wyoming
Map of Home: View Map
Dwelling Number: 11
Family Number: 11
Home Owned or Rented: Owned
Radio Set: No
Lives on Farm: Yes
Age at First Marriage: 42
Attended School: No
Able to Read and Write: Yes
Father's Birthplace: Wales
Mother's Birthplace: Wales
Language Spoken: Welsh
Immigration Year: 1907
Naturalization: Naturalized
Able to Speak English: Yes
Occupation: Farmer
Industry: Farm
Class of Worker: Working on own account
Employment: Yes
Household Members:
Name Age
John Roberts 52
Edith Roberts 49

This looks like the one who was on the 1910 census. He was from Rhuddlan, Wales and father was Thomas Roberts. He was going to join uncle Jame Grierson, Lauder, Wyoming.

John Roberts

in the Massachusetts, Passenger and Crew Lists, 1820-1963
View Massachusetts, Passenger and Crew Lists, 1820-1963

Name: John Roberts
Gender: Male
Age: 29
Nationality: Welsh
Birth Date: abt 1878
Birth Place: Abeycle, Wales
Departure Place: Liverpool, England
Arrival Date: 2 Nov 1907
Arrival Place: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
Last Residence: Wales
Friend: James Grierson
Ship: Cymric

His fathers name was Thomas and his mothers name was Sarah

Hi Margaret, thank you for your information which I can't completely dismiss. It's so close to the dates I have that it must remain a possibility. I've got a post card with an address and c/o James Grieson Esq, Lander, Fremont, Wyoming .. No post mark, the stamp has been removed by a collector. Also a photograph of a young women taken by 'Matson', 18 Commercial St. Salt Lake City. My great Aunt was born in 1910 and he was at Criccin Farm, Rhuddlan, North Wales at this point as far as I know. Jane

Can you tell us where he was from in Wales, Amanda, and his father's name?

The one that Ann posted was from Conway and his father's name was John Owen Roberts, Conway, Wales. He was heading to San Francisco, California.

I saw that one, Ann, but Amanda said he was 32 years old and born 1879.

Name:
John Roberts
Gender:
Male
Race/Nationality:
Welsh
Age:
22
Birth Date:
abt 1889
Birth Country:
Wales
Arrival Date:
29 Apr 1911
Port of Arrival:
Quebec, Canada
Ship Name:
Empress Ireland
Port of Departure:
Liverpool, England
Residence Country:
Wales
Record Type:
Manifests
Line Number:
2

Could this possibly be him in Fremont Wyoming? But it's in 1910 and you say he didn't emigrate till 1911.

John Roberts

in the 1910 United States Federal Census
View 1910 United States Federal Census

View blank form

Name: John Roberts
Age in 1910: 31
Birth Year: abt 1879
Birthplace: Wales
Home in 1910: Lewiston, Fremont, Wyoming
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1907
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Single
Father's Birthplace: Wales
Mother's Birthplace: Wales
Native Tongue: English
Occupation: Laborer
Industry: Farm
Employer, Employee or Other: Wage Earner
Home Owned or Rented: Rent
Farm or House: House
Naturalization Status: A
Able to Read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Out of Work: N
Number of weeks out of work: 0
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
John Roberts 31
Fred O Jones 19

My great great uncle sailed out of Liverpool uk to Quebec in 1911. He was a 32 year old farmer. The rest of the family hoped to join him at a later date but the 1st World war prevented this. I know he stayed in Fremont Wyoming for a while and possibly moved on to Salt Lake City. If anyone knows the Roberts family descended from a Welsh Farmer called John Roberts born 1879 please get in touch. Jane X