General Chat

I'm pretty sure you were well aware of the point being made Rollo, namely there are very few countries who over the years haven't obtained various lands from others in one way or another. With Gibraltar, they at least like being part of Britain.

France does not have any territorial disputes.
A minority in New Caledonia attempted to force independence but that is long gone.
Mayotte is a French insular dept. The Comoros Is. Govt claims Mayotte but the claim is dormant.
There have been disputes about uninhabited islands and schoals in the Bay of St Malo linked to fishing rights which have been resolved.
French Sov over St Pierre Miquelon is not disputed by Canada.

Spain has withdrawn its opposition to any Scottish application to join the EU should it depart from the UK. Its N African enclaves are legal. The Moroccan occupation of Western Sahara is not.

The only illegal occupation of territory in Europe is by Turkey (N Cyprus) and Russia (parts of Georgia and Ukraine). Russia is also in illegal occupation of Japanese islands, has illegally placed offensive weaponry in the Kaliningrad oblast and regularly flies military aircraft over Balt and Swedish territory. None of this seems to bother Trump or the brexiters.

How many Islands do France lay claim to ?? or Spain with sometimes dodgy backgrounds to their history....the list goes on for many countries.....

The border between Spain and Gib has always been a "hard" border because the Spanish like to flex their muscles every now and again and close it. Perhaps the UK could start agitating for Ceuta and Melilla to be returned to their former owners. I am sure that the Spanish can come up with all sorts of reasons to show their legal right to them.

They have a big fat cheque book what more do the EU want ?

According to Michael Heseltine, May and her so called negotiators don't have a hand to play when they go to the table.

Others have described it as going to the O.K. Corral with nothing more than a pen knife.

Why would you try and insult any market trader let alone a Romford one Rollo?

She has a great play that can be used, stop paying into this blackmailing/bullying group of overpaid dictators.


Quite why anyone would want to stay partners with them when they show their true colours is beyond me....then again they acted pretty much like this when they should have been trying to encourage everyone to vote remain so what can you expect.....they don't like you they don't really want you they just want your money !!

It is difficult sometimes to believe that Mayhem and her motley fools are alleged to have a proper education. Any undergraduate soon learns at his first tutorial that a loosely connected collection of bullet points is not a coherent argument or position. Barnier is avoiding the main issues by means of a series of well crafted bear traps. Maybot was warned about this way back and has chosen to ignore the red flags. Barnier has chosen two sensitive matters - Gib and Ireland - for starters and a main course of a huge exit bill. Whatever May might have had as a negotiating position is gone before she even gets started. Even a Romford market trader could do better.

Not just NI& Scotland - it looks like attention has also moved to Gibraltar, according to this morning's media.

Theresa May has been urged to protect the citizens of Gibraltar after a paragraph in the European Council's guidelines for Brexit negotiations appeared to offer Spain a veto on the territory's future.

Just looked Kense (not trusted my memory on this occasion in case I was shot down).

It was the BBC site - the figures they gave:

Eng. 53.4 leave. 46.6 remain.

NI. 44.2 leave. 55.8 remain.

Scot. 38 leave. 62 remain.

Wales. 52.5 leave. 47.5 remain.

If my maths is wrong, I apologise but usually I am good with stats.

Kense, I'll take a look at the site I used.

Rollo, the border between The Irish Republic and Northern Ireland has always been a porous one so I doubt whether unification will effect much change in Ireland itself.

Rollo try thinking the glass is half full sometimes, it might make the day go a bit more smoothly.

This is the beginning of a very long trek, and every hour something new will be thrown in from many quarters who have a vested interest in keeping the Good Ship UKpaypacket inside the EU. Just because there are hurdles doesn't mean the race can't be won.

Platitudes are all very well Caroline but won't butter any parsnips. The ROI border question has to be sorted somehow otherwise the brexit talks will collapse.

Consider:
1. The Leave campaign made airy promises that the Single travel area would continue.
2. The EU 26 ( ex Roi and UK) will not accept unpoliced exterior borders.
3. The ROI will veto a hard border
4. the ROI will not countenance UK border control points on its territory as a means to keep the border open
5. The brexit talks will not advance until the matter is sorted.

If you draw a Venn diagram the only intersect solution is to do away with the border altogether and unify the 6 counties with the rest of Ireland. This was the solution rejected by the Orangemen in 1922.

Any practical ideas other than venting send to Stormont who should be delighted with a way out.

Lets face it until it's all done and dusted certain elements are not going to be happy. When it's done and dusted they will either spend the rest of their lives moaning about how they feel it is the worse thing ever or if all is well they will suddenly jump on the wagon and claim they helped make it work. Either way the world will not end.....probably.....

Enda Kenny appears to be very calm these days - or, am I misreading the chap's barely audible anti-Catholic murmurings?

I was bemused by Teresa May discussing Ireland/ Borders

Both sides feel that a border between the Republic and Northern Ireland would cause issues with movement of goods and services between the 2 separate areas.
Is that all she can envisage?

I have to agree with Rollo on this. It would be wide open to abuse
Currently, all of the UK and ROI are EU members with free movement of people

What happens after Brexit when the UK and ROI have different immigration policies?

ROI will still have free movement of EU immigrants but, without a border control, there will be nothing to stop them from crossing into NI or hopping on a ferry to mainland UK ?

Once Brexit is implemented, it will be used as a back door entry

Joy, I don't understand your figure of 50.033% for Brexit if Scotland left. Surely it would be much larger than the national average without Scotland.

The figures I have are:

Total
Leave 17410742
Remain 16141241

Scotland
Leave 1018322
Remain 1661191

That gives UK without Scotland
Leave 16392420 -- 53.097%
Remain 14480050 -- 46.903%

The boundary of NI was created inside the Ulster boundary so as to ensure a proddie majority. from 1922 to 1970 the RCs ( who are often referred to by the derogatory term "taig") had v little reason for allegiance to the Crown. They were 3rd class citizens in a one party state.

It is perfectly true that Eire was not interested in union with the north. Now there is peace mostly attitudes are changing. Socially and in biz the hated border has gone nobody wants it back. Nobody. As was long feared by the bowler hatted and wearers of their father's sash the RCs are close to a majority. Moreover most of the young of all persausions are in favour of Union so long as the Rc church is removed from its power in Irish politics.

Nevertheless unlike with the Scots few are in a rush for change. the current setup suits most v well indeed.

quite how the UK is going to sort out the Irish border question is going to be a big ask. Post brexit a controlled border would be a smuggler and people trafficker dream. No control and it would be anarchy.

UKGOV has proposed Calais style controls at Dun leoghaire Shannon and Cork. The ROI has turned that down flat.

So a bit of a show stopper yet another Leave promise turning to dust.

Here's another thought, Bob.

If Scotland went its own way the majority left in the UK who voted Brexit would be 50.033% - a very close call.

If NI chose to go it alone it would leave English and Welsh results with 52.95% who voted in favour of Brexit.

I do think Sturgeon has chosen a time to bleat that suited her because it was the worst possible moment for the whole of the UK. It looks to me as though someone in Northern Ireland could also be thinking of joining the baying hounds.

Personally, I think it's treacherous and a bit like kicking a dog when he's struggling to stand. It's time they backed the nation they're part of instead of harking back to the perceived glory days of daggers-drawn conflict.

Here's a thought. Jeremiah Corbyn has said that NI should have a referendum to see if they wish to unify with the Republic of Ireland. If they do, and are in favour, surely the Republic should also have a referendum to see if they want them. From what I have heard, they probably would vote against. What happens then? Just a thought.