General Chat

You do sometimes get conflict between client and contractors.

OH designed a safety control system &, because of the large number of cables the client needed, had to create an underfloor void. The client insisted that the void should be flooded with CO2 if there was an electrical fire. It was explained that the pressure required would blow the upper surface into the room. That could result in fatalities. There was a a safer alternative which required fewer pressurised tanks. "The client is always right" even when there's a better alternative.

Sylvia building and construction law and practice in the UK are not at all the same as in Canada.

In particular having an architect in overall control of a project is not assured. The calculations for materials and quantities are usually the task of quantity surveyors and building engineers. The Tories see building regulations etc as a restraint on trade. Following several serious fires they have refused to amend regulations. An in depth report on UK fire safety has been embargoed. The powers and reach of the fire brigade have been seriously weakened. Now, at least in London, you can shop around for fire safety inspections and sign off.

In the case of Grenfell Ct the various sub contractors got on with their work with minimal control and coordination from anybody least of all architects. This together with the disappearance of once strong LA buildin know how is typical in today's Britain.

As soon as a judge led inquiry is announced everybody clams up. That has already happened. Next there will be long delays while the judge sets up his/her enquiry. Ministers can and do decide on its scope and powers. At least two years will pass before a report often far longer. In the meantime all concerned are muffled in what can be said and the media restricted in their reporting. Perfect for kicking problem into the long grass.

Given that there are a large number of similar inhabited buildings and a lot of cladding work in progress the need for investigation, conclusion and action is urgent.

If I was the planners builders or owners
I would be making my way to Brazil

Pretty smart :-( :-(

Oh please......

A most tragic event has taken place that none e of us will mercifully ever encounter and this thread has been full of empathy for all those concerned........but please.!

I personally dont give a fig what Rollo does or claims to do,as we all betted he would claim to have a connection to this,either by rellie or a friend, or been involved and we didnt get disapointed,,as happenes to any disaster world wide.

When you read & see the news it is tragic event to awful us to comprehend .we are not experts but lets not forget the victims in this ..Front line services fireman.,police ,hospital staff do a fantastic job they are worth their weight in gold .but government cut backs mean there are not enough of front line people on our streets .I really do get annoyed at so called no all.who mouth off & know all the answers but for god sake please don't forget this awful tragic event has cost a lot of lives & these people will never recover their loved ones or treasured belongings .lets get them help the government need to get their finger out & stop bickering about who is right or wrong .work together to get safety measures in place stop building monster building that are not safe .people & safety first before profit will it happen doubt it Barbra

According to the DMail Joy they are hiding in deepest Sussex.

Those who wish for the media to drop its investigations, social media to drop increasingly caustic threads and for politicians of all stripes making hay are crying for the moon.

The tower blocks nr Latimer Rd are very prominent landmarks it is impossible to drive in or out of west London by the A40 without noticing them.

Let's be honest here this particular unbelievably tragic event will probably never be fully solved and therefore blame will not be solely placed on any one "person". As with all major incidents, the perfect storm was due to lots of different factors.
All we can hope for is it is assumed quickly that the cladding or the application of it is a major factor and it is removed from other buildings.

Agree with Barbra, tragedy and support first and foremost, investigation and remedies next, recriminations and law suits last.

Don't forget that there have been many people in charge of departments which have involvement in building plans, regs and compliance certifications from all political parties.

Not the time to point fingers, a cross party investigation is needed and general consensus, for once, on how to move forward with social housing.

........ and how long do you wait for the same cladding to be removed from the many other towers in London that are said to be covered with it?

IMHO, something needs to be done fast there before you get another huge fire.

Terrorists may have been given ideas!!


and in saying this I am not denying the sorrow and anger regarding the poor people in Grenfell Tower, but angry and worried about what might happen while all the powers that be debate and argue

I have investigation and remedies next.

I have read there are several permutations of the component layers which burn at different rates. That investigation would start quickly I would hope.

I'm sad this has turned into a political accusatory MSM event. A major disaster like this causes anger but public disorder will achieve resentment. That's a fact of life.

JoyLouise, your fire blanket should be OK, they should last indefinitely. If it is in a rigid plastic container, it will never go back in. If you do ever have to use it, throw it away and buy a new one.

There has been some suggestion that the government are to blame for this disaster.

There is probably an element of truth in this but it actually goes back to the labour government of Tony Bliar who was instrumental in initiating the policy of insulating homes on the premise that it would save on fuel.

Nothing wrong with the principle but unfortunately he was advised not by independent experts but rather by the industry salesmen who saw this as a means of feathering their nests.

Billions of pounds have since been spent at taxpayers expense on expensive sub-standard insulation which at best might produce savings over a generation or more and at worst is more than useless or, possibly, down right dangerous.

As far as tumble driers are concerned? Stop using them. Not counting the safety aspect, they are the biggest energy wasters you can ever have, and no better than drying your washing in front of a three bar electric fire.

There is nothing wrong per se in overcladding 1960s and 1970s tower blocks in order to bring their insulation up to modern standards. The technique has been widely used in north America and Europe with great success eg hundreds of buildings in Gt Toronto alone.

In order to make the technique work projects must pay close attention to both construction methods, project management and materials. Canada for instance has tight regulation and seamless project mgt quite unlike the UK laissez faire approach since 2010 where the only aspect which has been tight is budget. The methods and materials used at Grenfell are illegal in the USA and Canada where sprinklers are mandatory. All UK private sector high rise have sprinklers. Sprinklers would not of course have stopped the external fire but would have reduced the death toll.

Emergency inspection of refurbished tower blocks is to be undertaken now. Given how difficult it will be to find enough people with skills and experience AND access to plans and documents (given legal liability issues) the govt will be tempted to cut corners.

The Tory govt has an overall policy of deregulation and tight budgets. It has cited the removal of "onerous" EU building regs as a typical plus from brexit. The policy is also being applied with vigor to health, education and transport with increasing resistance and blowback.

It will be extremely difficult to carry out a dispassionate inquiry.
T May's style does not help. She seems unable to understand that her office is a political job not UK CEO.

I hope that something positive will come out of this tragedy with the loss of life and human potential but it is not looking good.

I <3 London

Bob, thanks. It is wrapped exactly as I bought it.

I have to ask Rollo how do you know so much about the way things are done in America and Canada ?

And as already mentioned all Governments have had their hands in this procedure in one way or another, it's not just a Tory thing.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article.../Firm-paid-2-6m-cladding-Grenfell-collapsed.html

Rydon contracted ,
,to Harley Facades Ltd.


worth a read to get a fuller understanding.

One of the privately rented flats:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-59885887.html

I have some close friends nr Vancouver at a place called Bainbridge Island. He is a retired armanents salesman who has gone into Vancouver property development. The Chinese are the big players.
2nd cousin lives in Calgary, small scale landlord NOT highrise. He complains about all the regulation just the same.

So, I asked.

Of course...........

Bainbridge Island is in the US ....................

so he's one of the ones helping to raise house and condo prices up here to astronomical levels, is he??

Absentee landlords are not much liked ;-)

Hope none of his holdings are vacant, or he's going to be subject to massive tax demands from city council as of July 1st


Or is he just bankrolling himself ready to get out of the US?