General Chat

My heart goes out to all those poor people all I know someone is going to have to pay for this even though this is a accident I would have liked to have donated some of my clothes that I am throwing out but has I don't live in London now have no way of getting them there so glad that they are not building these high rise's anymore

<3 <3 <3

Tragic!

Thinking of all concerned <3 <3 <3

Oh right,,,,,,,,,only you didnt put not for profit just that you were a board member.

Kay I said no such thing. Please do not mangle my posts.

I said that I am on the board of a not4profit housing company. I give them my time for free. Most of the estate is old. As a consequence we have had to spend on better insulation to meet modern standards. There is not a big choice of materials and all of them claim to meet class "O" fire standard. Like many people until today I thought that meant fireproof. Evidently not.

I am a civil engineer but def not a buildings engineer. Neither are you and more importantly are architects. Something is seriously screwed up and this time answers will be demanded. Solutions are certain to be costly.

As I said I had no idea that I had any sort of contact with the event until today. I have not visited the location but have sorted a house for our guy and his people.

If you want to have a pop at somebody this is neither the time or place.

Now there's a surprise Kay :-| :-|.

My sincere sympathies to all those that this awful incident has affected. <3

So Rollo,,,,,, now you had a commercial involvement with the tower, correct.?


RolloTheRed Report 14 Jun 2017 20:16


Speaking as a person on the board of property Co refurbishment is difficult.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/14/towers-managers-were-reviewing-safety-after-fire-at-another-block

makes interesting reading

Sylvia there are thousands of social high rise buildings and schools which do not have sprinkler systems. Sprinklers are compulsory for new build but not refurbishment in England. Single staircase + lift is common right across Europe though France does not allow it on new build or renovations.

The insulation cladding was probably Celetex which is very widely used in both private and public sector. RS5000 for instance has a grade O fire resistance the best. Speaking as a person on the board of property Co refurbishment is difficult. Regulations require much better insulation. Most central London residential does not have cavity wall nor do flats built from 1930 onwards. Thus the options are either to put the insulation sheets inside, reducing living space or as exterior cladding. For flats it is always the exterior option. Also exterior cladding allows concurrent occupation.

Something has gone very, very wrong that is certain. Finding out just what is urgent given the widespread use of similar construction methods.

There have been several UK enquiries and reports into fires in social housing and schools since Grant Schapps was minister in 2010 and building fire regs. The last minister was Gavin Barwell now May's chief of staff. He refused to release a report into fire regs.

The problem is essentially money. Private landlords Inc housing charities have insurance companies and building reg inspectors on their case. The regs are applied with a much lighter hand in the public sector. that especially applies to fire protection regs. The cost of making safe tower blocks and schools in the UK has been estimated at £ 1 bn. The same amount as the bribe to the D.U.P.

One of our key staff members, a Muslim, lived in the building. I did not know that until this morning. I have had a v stressful day locating him and sorting out the needs of him and has family. It is now iftar and time for a break and to eat.

The cladding used on the exterior of the building was banned in Saudi Arabia afer the hotel fire they had last year.

So it should have been banned in the UK.

I'm sure every city and town everywhere in the world is asking, and being asked, questions today about high rises.

Most tower blocks not only in London of that era only have a central concrete staircase.in a zig-zag pattern to each floor.

Heads need to roll and if found to be fault of materials then this gov needs to be sued to the hilt by the residents.!

There was an "expert" talking on the BBC radio as I went on the school run this afternoon who said that the single staircase was a deliberate design decision when the flats were originally built.

The rationale behind this was that each apartment was built a a self contained fire resistant unit so if a fire were to break out, it would be limited to a single unit, or at worse, affect only those either side. One reason why people were told to stay put.

Another theory being proposed is that the exterior cladding applied relatively recently was the cause of the rapid spread,

Whatever the cause, we will need to wait till the real experts have finished their investigations.

I was horrified to see pictures of this last night, it's something that I think all of us fear and dread ............

........... but I was even more horrified to hear this morning on our news reports that there was only ONE staircase in the building, and that was in the centre of the building, and that there was apparently only 1 way in and out. Plus they apparently did not have sprinklers.

That is criminal, IMHO

People were told to stay in their flats partly because they would be impeding firemen trying to get up the one staircase to help people.

We have high rises in the city where I live that range from 10 to 60+ storeys high, some built 50+ years ago, some still in development. According to our Assistant Fire Chief interviewed this morning, only one 10 storey building does not have sprinklers, all other high rise apartment buildings have sprinklers in suites and hallways, as well as fire and smoke alarms in corridors. All have more than 1 stair case, and more than 1 way in and out.

He also pointed out that current buildings higher than 6 storeys are built of concrete, walls separating suites are fire walls, and there are fire walls and separations all through out the building, plus sprinklers in suites that are intended to put out a fire at its source.

We are now having some buildings up to 18 storeys that are built of combi wood and concrete ........ all material and cladding has to be fire retardant, there have to be fire walls, etc etc.

Buildings of any height (even houses) are supposed to install fire and smoke alarms when renovated, with sprinklers as a desirable option in houses, and mandatory in apartment buildings, hotels, commercial buildings etc.

TBH ............ it seems to me that someone dropped the ball if that building was renovated last year and left it without fire retardant cladding inside and out.


If I remember correctly, the towers in NY on 9/11 had staircases at 4 corners of the building, but it might only have been 2 at opposite corners

<3 <3 <3 <3

man, who is believed to be elderly and partially blind, has been rescued by firefighters from the Grenfell Tower inferno after a terrifying 12-hour wait.
The man, who has been identified by relatives, is believed to have lived in the tower for 30 years and was seen praying at his window as he awaited help on the 11th floor.
Good Morning Britain filmed him as he waved a jumper as a makeshift SOS flag and cried out for help from his 11th-floor flat.Piers Morgan and Susanna Reid, the programme's presenters, said they felt "helpless" as they watched him and feared for his life.
However, he has now been pictured being rescued by firefighters 12 hours after he was trapped by the blaze.
Ms Reid said: "He in his 70s, he's partially blind. He has lived in the Grenfell Tower for 30 years.

Thank god HE IS SAFE :-D

from images i saw, it looks like the cladding on the outside helped spread the fire...

It could have been so much worse but many tenants are Muslim so were awake breaking their Ramadan fast so were able to alert neighbours.

Wonderful to see the community pulling together at such a dreadful time.

So true, Sharron.
The people of London have rallied, but this should never have happened.

I've been sat here with tears rolling down my face. <3

This is truly awful and I can't begin to imagine what it must have been like and, to be honest, I don't want to. Lucky me to have that choice.

It is not the first time we have seen something similar, it happens all the time but this time it wasn't Johnny Foreigner it was here in Blighty.

Somehow it all seems so much worse doesn't it?

The only help I can even think to offer is my inflatable mattress. You can't quite excuse your own helplessness when it so close to home can you?

How so tragic . The panic must have been overwhelming and wanting to protect your family be the priority

We do have to wait for the investigations before speculation on the cause and if there was more that could be done to protect the tenants