General Chat

...back to my Cattermoles.
Derivation of the name 'Cattermole':
"Cattermole - First recorded in Suffolk in 1478 – later the Suffolk Institute of
Archaeology has it writ down as Cakyrmoll – the meaning is unknown but derives
from either Flemish or Dutch – Most probably Flemish weavers."

Hmmm - Flemish or Dutch - and weavers - Walloon perhaps?
Oh goodness me, the Walloons, like the Huguenots, were Protestant, and suffered similar religious problems.
'The Protestant immigrants from Flanders and Brabant spoke Flemish, a Dutch dialect, and can thus easily be confused with Dutch settlers. Edward III (1327-1377) encouraged the Flemish to settle in England, as he valued their silk and other textile skills.'
At the time, Norfolk needed more weavers.
Just because my ancestors came over before the Protestant massacres, doesn't negate their heritage!!!
It's too easy to follow alleged 'tried and trusted' routes in genealogy - but you need to go off the path sometimes.
The Southampton Huguenots are side lined on the internet, unless you specify Southampton. The 'French Church' though now privately owned is from before the 'acknowledged' Huguenot massacre. However:
"St. Julien's Church on Winkle Street in Southampton was the chapel of the Hospital of St. Julien or God's House which was founded c. 1197 as an almshouse and hostel for travellers on pilgrimage to Canterbury. It was used regularly by French Protestants from the 16th century until 1939 and is thus also known as the French Church"
Used regularly by French Protestants, but not built specifically for them.

Now I'm confused (spelling/grammatical errors in quotes courtesy of Rollo – I C&P’d):
Rollo 16 July 11:37 -
"Most common surname Bellamy ie bel ami good friend. Refugees were often scared to use their real names. A French surname is not always Huguenot. However if located in East Kent, East London, Essex, Fenland the chances are good"

Rollo 19 July 11:40
"There is nothing special about Hugenot French and Flemish names so finding these names in England cannot be automatically associated with the Huguenots the moreso if the record is from Anglican sources. The Huguenot Society holds comprehensive records but they are not on line nor has Ay managed to acquire rights."

Seems a bit of a contradiction - and in reply to my stating that my ancestors were Huguenot!! :-D
First, names are important - then they're not. :-S :-S :-S

Is this a 'statement of fact' Rollo, on the assumption I don't know what I'm talking about?

Another of Rollo's 'facts’ - "Those who came in the hundred years before driven by French religous wars, attended French language protestant churches"

Really? So those who came ‘in the hundred years’ before the 1572 massacres (ie 1472 ish) attended French language Protestant Churches? I think you’ll find these churches weren’t established in the UK until the 16th century, so your statement is flawed.

Huguenots didn't have to settle in any of the places Rollo mentioned, either, unless here for a specific job. Some integrated into the established community.
Neither did they HAVE to attend a French Church. In fact, as I’ve already stated, the first Huguenot Churches weren't established in the UK until the 16th Century, and even when they were established were pretty sparse..
So, looking at the local Protestant Churches records if your ancestor came over before the mass expulsion COULD show a Huguenot family.

Also, Huguenot Church records aren't definitive. They only show those who lived near enough to/wanted to worship in a dedicated Church, but obviously, those who worshipped in dedicated churches are easier to ‘prove’.

Very few Huguenots emigrated to England from France before the supression of the Edict of Nantes in 1685. Those who came in the hundred years before driven by French religous wars, attended French language protestant churches. There would be no record of their bmd in the English bishop's transcripts.

The Fenland Huguenots were invited by the Duke of Bedford for their skills in draining the Fens. Again they had their own relgious administration centred on Thorney Is.

There is nothing special about Hugenot French and Flemish names so finding these names in England cannot be automatically associated with the Huguenots the moreso if the record is from Anglican sources. The Huguenot Society holds comprehensive records but they are not on line nor has Ay managed to acquire rights.

Paris is worth a mass.

Actually, my Cattermole's were Huguenots - the original spelling (by the vicar) in the church in Sweffling (St Mary's, I think) in 1543 was Kackermoulle.
We worked out the Kackermoulle's were Cattermoles, purely by tracing BMD's from my gg grandmother line backwards, in the church's records.
They didn't move much in those days!!

The Cattermoles married into the Suffolk Baggotts.
Baggott (originally Bagod) is a Flemish surname - they came over with the Norman invasion, originally settling in the Midlands.
Later a few went East and settled in East Anglia.

I have Erasmus de la Fontaine who was baptised at the Huguenot Church at Threadneedle St London on 4.10.1601.
He has the same name as his father, who married a lady called Elizabeth De Cordes, who may have been Dutch.
His grandfather was Nicholas Fontaine born in Valenciennes in Hainault, France.

Like Sharron - I might have - a Norfolk family forename of Jarrett from the 1600's (so far).
My ex - definitely.
His family were involved for centuries with money making with Portal in Hampshire, starting from the time when Portal only employed Huguenots.
Ex's father 'broke the trend' by not joining the 'firm'.
He was the only son, and fathered an illegitimate child aged 17, with a 35 year old divorcee. His mother insisted he leave the village - so he joined the Royal Navy.
Ex's grandfather father gave 'maintenance' for the child unbeknownst to his wife.

Yes, ex and I found his son - unfortunately after ex's father had died - he'd always wanted to meet him :-(

Really easy family to trace though - the same 4 mile stretch of road for (so far) over 300 years!! :-D :-D :-D :-D
I may go back further - he is my daughters' father - but still my ex!! :-D :-D :-D

Hi Liz :-)

I have Ewin on the same tree line. But it's not my own research.. It's one of the very few branches that I have not verified fully.

Perhaps your Dewing acquaintance is my 15th Cousin 10 x Removed lol ;-) :-D

I'm more inclined to think that the Norfolk Dewings were of Norman descent, but you never know :-D

We Have a Tulet who seems to be a hugenot. Many different spellings: Tollet, Tullet etc.

I know a Dewing in Norwich, and some Ewings too

Lizx

Thanks for your comments. The spelling of the Pullee surname has changed over the years. A distant relative has traced baptism records back to a Huguenot church in Canterbury where the surname originally was Polle.

Might have.

The family always thought my grandmother's family were French aristos who came here in the Revolution until I found one working as a farm labourer in 1770.

There were two main groups. First Flemish Huguenots who settled around Thorney Is in Cambridgeshire. They were very much part of draining the fens not at all a popular project with the locals. Second from mid and South France who settled around Whitechapel bringing with them silk weaving skills.

There is lots of documentation. If you are lucky you may find a H. Bible which will ha e bmd written in the covers. You may even find the H. emblem, the pheonix. I have a miniature oil painting of one of my ancestors wearing her Huguenot cap.

Most common surname Bellamy ie bel ami good friend. Refugees were often scared to use their real names. A French surname is not always Huguenot. However if located in East Kent, East London, Essex, Fenland the chances are good.

The Huguenots suffered a lot from English abuse and were forced to keep together for a very long time. The English seem not to have forgotten old bad habits :-(

My uncle's wife was from the East End and her grandmother was of Hugenot descent, with surname of Preou. The family came to London from France in the 1600's.

As you can imagine, wading through the spelling variations in the records along the way has been interesting, to say the least.

Hi Lisa :-)

I have Norfolk Dewing Ancestors.

According to information some present day Dewings have put on the internet, they are supposedly Huguenot settlers from Holland, but I do not know this for sure.

I believe some of may family were Huguenots. Their surname was Pullee. Has anyone else discovered Hugeunots in their family tree?