General Chat

Thanks for all of that.
Its obvious that I am still way behind in expierience than you all.
With a little more digging I have found that a Sarah Warman married a John Rolfe 09/05/1813, so could this be John Warman's mother and father (step father)?
As mentioned a John Rolfe was a witness at John Warman's wedding.
Onwards and upwards.

St Mary & St Eanswyth is the main church for the older part of Folkestone. Sitting high on the cliffs above the harbour, it is a likely location for mariners families.

If you would like me to go into Folkestone library and look up any events in parish records, please send a message outlining what you would like me to check.

According to the 1851 Census, Susanna was born ca 1808 ........ and this could be her baptism


Canterbury Baptisms

Last name Baker
Birth year -
Baptism year 1808
Baptism date 17 Apr 1808
Place Folkestone, Ss Mary & Eanswith
Father's first name(s) -
Mother's first name(s) Susanna
County Kent
Country England
Archive Canterbury Cathedral Archives
Archive reference U3/88/1/5
Year range 1783-1812
Record set Kent, Canterbury Archdeaconry Baptisms 1538-1912

First child was called Elizabeth ...... the 1841 Census has an Elizabeth Warman living with John, Susanna and thechildren. The 1841 Census does not give relationships between people in a household, but one must assume that Elizabeth is relted to John

1841 Census

John Warman Male 35 1806 Kent, England, Mariner
Susanna Warman Female 30 1811 Kent, England
William Warman Male 13 1828 Kent, England
Susanna Warman Female 11 1830 Kent, England
Sarah Warman Female 6 1835 Kent, England
Elizabeth Warman Female 80 1761 Kent, England

Address:- South Street

If they followed a naming tradition, then the assumption could be that the eldest daughter was called after his mother ......... ie, Elizabeth

If that is true, then the 1805 baptism is ruled out.

BUT the only John Warman baptism with mother Elizabeth is in 1803, and father is Anthony


Canterbury Baptisms

First name(s) John
Last name Warman
Birth year -
Baptism year 1803
Baptism date 04 Nov 1803
Place Folkestone, Ss Mary & Eanswith
Father's first name(s) Anthony
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
County Kent
Country England
Archive Canterbury Cathedral Archives
Archive reference U3/88/1/5
Year range 1783-1812
Record set Kent, Canterbury Archdeaconry Baptisms 1538-1912
Category Life Events (BDMs)
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from England, United Kingdom

no further information on the image of the Register


and we've opened another can of worms, because you haven't mentioned Anthony as a possible father's name!

EDIT:-

It seems that this John died in 1804 ..............



so who was Elizabeth Warman age 80, and what was her relationship to John?

One way to help determine parentage is to see what names were given to children.

There seem to be 4 children born to John Warman and Susanna Baker

Kent, Canterbury Archdeaconry Baptisms 1538-1912

Elizabeth Ann
Warman
—
1825
John
Susanna
Folkestone, Ss Mary & Eanswith

From image:-
Address:- Folkestone
Father occupation:- Mariner


William Henry
Warman
—
1828
John
Susanna
Folkestone, Ss Mary & Eanswith

Address:- Folkestone
Father:- Mariner


Susanna
Warman
—
1831
John
Susanna
Folkestone, Ss Mary & Eanswith

Address:- Folkestone
Father:- Mariner


Sarah Alice
Warman
—
1834
John
Susanna
Folkestone, Ss Mary & Eanswith

Address:- Folkestone
Father:- Mariner

His marriage, from records on FMP. Note the date ...


Canterbury Marriages

First name(s) John
Last name Warman
Marriage year 1824
Marriage date 27 Nov 1824
Place Folkestone, Ss Mary & Eanswith
Spouse's first name(s) Susanna
Spouse's last name Baker
Groom's parish Folkestone
Bride's parish Folkestone
County Kent
Country England
Archive Canterbury Cathedral Archives
Archive reference U3/88/1/20
Year range 1813-1837
Page 127
Record set Kent, Canterbury Archdeaconry Marriages 1538-1928
Category Life Events (BDMs)
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from England, United Kingdom

from image:-

both "of this Parish"
John a Bachelor and Susanna a Spinster
Married after Banns
Neither could sign their name

Witnesses:- John Rolfes (his mark) and Ann Hall


I suspect the 29 November is a mis-transcription of 27 ...... but it is clearly 27 on the Register

I can see the problem of why there are so many variants for parnts' names ...........

John Warman is quite a common name!

I have found records on FMP for a John Warman baptised in each of the following years .......... 1802, 1803, 1805 and 1810 .......... until you determine EXACTLY when your John was born OR find convincing proof of the father, then it is hard to determne between the first 3 when you consider that the age given on censuses is only approximate and can be upto 2 years wrong.


FWIW .... this is the baptism for the John Warman baptised in 1805, from FMP


Canterbury Baptisms

First name(s) John
Last name Warman
Birth year -
Baptism year 1805
Baptism date 06 Jan 1805
Place Folkestone, Ss Mary & Eanswith
Father's first name(s) -
Mother's first name(s) Sarah
County Kent
Country England
Archive Canterbury Cathedral Archives
Archive reference U3/88/1/5
Year range 1783-1812
Record set Kent, Canterbury Archdeaconry Baptisms 1538-1912


The image showsonly .....

John, son of Sarah Warman

Glengyle ................


never trust trees on ancestry (or family search, and possibly also on here and FMP) ..............

the problem is one person makes an assumption, and then multiple others see that, take it and add it to their own tree without doing any checking.

Therefore ............ multiple repeats for every wrong bit of information!!


I suggest you take information from other trees under advisement ........... treat it as a possible suggestion until you can get the documentation and proof fro yourself.

For events in England and Wales before 1 July 1837 that means searching out Parish Records for baptisms, marriages and burials. Luckily more and lore such records are being digitised and put online, but it is difficult.

You also have to remember that women counted for very little back in the day .......... most baptism will show the father's name, often the mother's christian name but usually not her surname.

The fact that the baptism that Shirley found has only the mother's name with her surname is a definite indication that he was illegitimate .......... otherwise it would have shown father's name.

Ok Shirley got all that.
Thanks

Looks like his baptism

John Warman
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 6 Jan 1805
Baptism Place: Folkestone, Kent, England
Mother: Sarah Warman
FHL Film Number: 1736721
There are other John Warman but not in Folkestone
On the face of it she could be a single mother


VIEW 1851 England Census

Name: John Warman
Age: 46
Estimated birth year: abt 1805
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Susanna Warman
Gender: Male
Where born: Folkestone, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Folkestone
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image
Registration district: Elham
Sub-registration district: Folkestone
ED, institution, or vessel: 2f
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 93
Piece: 1633
Folio: 139
Page Number: 25
Household Members:
Name Age
John Warman 46
Susanna Warman 43
William H Warman 22
Susanna Warman 20
Sarah Sanders 4

You won't get a birth cert because he was born before registration started

Hi everyone.
I am searching for the mother and father of the above.
John married a Susannah Baker 24/11/1824 (some records show 27th or 29th)???
He died 22/06/1874 Folkestone.
Various mothers are on Ancestry (Sarah or Elizabeth) and various fathers (John, Edmund or Edward).
You would think that the Warman family trees on Ancestry could at least agree on his mother and father.
Trouble is, I have found that a lot of info on Ancestry seem to be guesses.
Has anyone got proof of John's parentage.
Yes, I could probably get his birth cert but my files are overflowing with them and my pension is tiny.
Thanks
Glengyle