General Chat

By their fruits ye shall know them.

Rollo .......

I was not talking about Health companies and their dubious ethics ........... that's a whole other barrel of monkeys

I was talking about the ethics of doctors, specialists, researchers and drug companies, and that has been going a lot longer than Health companies have been operating.

USA health companies and their dubious ethics already have a bridgehead in the UK. Post brexit there is every possibility that the NHS will be sold off to them while retaining its upfront facade.

it is a fact of life that "most" American doctors have a financial interest in he treatment they offer any patient ............

that covers everything from the prescription the GP gives a patient because that is the drug that the drug company has "paid" him by inviting him to a conference with all expenses paid, to the specialists who are conducting research on their own behalf or offering to use someone else's research on payment of a small fee.

Even those who may give glowing reports on how a certain drug or treatment acts have usually been paid to do that.

That's in addition to all the wild and wonderful treatments offered to cure cancer, etc etc ................. one could almost call many of those offering such treatments as "charlatans" offering snake oil.

it is truly horrifying to read medical ethics articles and books.

I believe the treatment he intended using was experimental and had never been used for Charlie's condition before - so he was giving the parents false hope.

The doctor hasn't helped the situation - " assessing the scans he concluded that the NBT therapy was no longer a viable option." - it's the 'no longer a viable option' that is (to my mind) the wrong thing to say.

Had it ever been a viable option?
He'd never seen the scans when he said he could help, and the treatment was experimental, so perhaps wouldn't have helped at all, but the staff at GOSH will face the flack.

Oh, and the American neurologist has a financial interest in the treatment - so it's wonderful publicity for him.

However, after flying over from the US to examine him in person for the first time, after being asked to do so by the judge, and assessing the scans he concluded that the NBT therapy was no longer a viable option.
(Dr Michia Hirano, a US professor of neurology)

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/
2017/jul/24/charlie-gard-parents-end-legal-fight-over-critically-ill-baby

Parents are not always the best people to make decisions about their children. I hope this little boy can slip away peacefully and be free from pain.

....Charlie's parents being encouraged to sue.

I hope you're wrong, but fear you're right.
......
Unfortunately his parents believed that if he'd been assessed & accepted for the experimental treatment earlier, he would have potentially been a 'normal little boy'.

Who knows what we as parents would have done? Like them, we may have clutched at straws. On the other hand, we may have accepted that a less than 1% chance of a slight improvement was to low to risk moving him overseas.

If my father, after rejecting a brain operation, was told the 80% success rate was too low, 1 % is off the scale.

Sadly I agree with Maggie. It doesn't sound like an end to the fight which the parents are prepared to accept.

I really want to scream at the American specialists who made the 'reversible damage' claims without all the clinical facts.

How cruel to be thrown an emotional lifeline only to have someone cut the rope.

Having said that I sincerely hope that GOSH staff can be left to carry on with their wonderful work without further abuse.

I also hope that Charlie's parents can, in the months to come, allow other medical professionals to access his records to help with research.

Daily Fail headline and article:

'He won't make his first birthday': Charlie Gard's parents weep as they admit their son will die within days and blame Great Ormond Street doctors for not letting him fly to US

Charlie Gard's parents give up fight to save their boy

Charlie Gard will be allowed to die after his parents today made the heartbreaking decision to let him 'slip away'. Chris Gard and Connie Yates arrived at the High Court in tears as they ended a campaign to save his life that has touched millions around the world. They have battled for six months for their beloved 11-month-old son to be flown to the US for pioneering drugs to treat his rare strain of mitochondrial disease. But they have now decided to let him die clearly believing that Great Ormond Street's refusal to let him travel to a New York hospital had cost him his chance. Grant Armstrong, for the parents, told High Court judge Mr Justice Francis: 'Poor Charlie. It is too late. The damage has been done. Sadly time has run out. Sadly the window of opportunity no longer exists. The parents have taken an extremely hard decision.'

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THAT won't help GOSH staff at all.
Imagine the situation if we didn't have the NHS.
Ever the cynic, I have visions of Charlie's parents being encouraged to sue.

The parents of this delicate child did their level best for the benefit of their offspring.

In doing so, their actions started a worthwhile debate.

There was never going to be a 'winner' in this situation.

I sincerely hope the Yates-Gards (& GOSH) can take comfort , knowing they did all they could for their son.

It would appear from the news that Charlie Gards parents have ended their legal challenge .

but as Sue said ................

supercrutch Report 23 Jul 2017 15:41

No Sue Charlie's parents aren't receiving abuse it's other parents visiting GOSH from the street protesters. This seems to be based on the pro life Americans when they protest who fling abuse at everyone who enters a clinic.

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I'm afraid that the actions of those pro-lifers (which we had up here for some time as well as below the line) is what sprang to mind when I read about what was happening outside Great Ormonde ......... same mentality, now mixed with the "professional" demonstrators.

My thoughts then were the same as I have now ............ wait until "it" happens to you, and then see how you behave, and will the service(s) you need still be available.

I don't understand it, this child is still alive (albeit artificially) because of the staff at GOSH, who have done their best for him.
Why should the professional view of consultants result in nurses and doctors being attacked?
Do these trolling morons not realise how things work?
I'll answer myself - no they don't.
Do they have medical expertise - No.
Have they even passed a stage 1 first aid course - unlikely.
Should they be caught/hauled before the court and charged with harassment - yes.

I can't add any more except to give my support to what Sue said in her opening post. It is time somebody was made an example and arrested for the harrassment of those wonderful staff at GOSH. Shame on the protesters.

Yes I agree with you Sue.

But the protesters should have more respect for the patients and parents as it must be very noisy when the protesters are shouting all the time.

Just hope that common sense rules.

No Sue Charlie's parents aren't receiving abuse it's other parents visiting GOSH from the street protesters. This seems to be based on the pro life Americans when they protest who fling abuse at everyone who enters a clinic.

This whole tragic episode became public property when the family started fund raising. Those who donated obviously wanting their money to be used as promised. Because no one appeared to appreciate that specialists may be against allowing possible further suffering be visited upon Charlie they cannot seem to accept a different outcome.

It has sadly turned a private tragedy into a public drama with added repercussions for medical staff and court officials.

But as far as I have seen the family aren't getting the abuse it's the hospital staff that are and it should stop.

Yes I know that's impossible because of the idiots/trolls on social media.

Burt they are letting their hearts rule and NOT their heads in what is best for the poor little mite.

Yes the parents will let their hearts rule but they have to understand that even taking him to the USA or getting treatment here from the American doctor may not work.
I think they are hoping for a miracle to bring the little mite back to a 100% health which is not going to work.

Once brain damaged always brain damaged and also he is blind which the parents are saying ""but he opened his eyes"" but blind people can still open their eyes.

I feel sorry for the parents but in the end they are going to face up to the real world and let him go.

Those trolls who claim to know all the correct answers have, more often than not, misunderstood the young baby's medical problems in the first place.

Let me know if I have unintentionally fallen headlong into the same miserable mind-binding category.