General Chat

I would like to elaborate on something I put on the memorials thread, It's a bit involved but I think there might be some quite interesting developments.

It is not really like the Tony Martin case because he shot a fleeing intruder with a shotgun he already had loaded. He was going to have to be seen to be punished for that because a clever barrister could find all sorts of means of intent in that and the keeping of a loaded shotgun is illegal and not to be encouraged.

There was no intent here. After all, before the event, nobody ever thought that, should a chap who was too good to walk the Earth, think to pop in during the night, with his friend, whilst carrying a screwdriver, that would stab the exemplary gentleman with his own tool. Of course, anybody carrying any sort of weapon must be aware that it can harm them as well.

If what Liz has read is true, I am not doubting Liz but the media cannot be trusted, The 'victim' managed to cross the road by his own volition before his accomplice removed the screwdriver from the wound and nobody knows how the screwdriver entered his torso.

If you were making a living in any other way and your colleague's body was pierced by a tool of their trade, your duty of care would be to either call emergency services or get them to A&E as quickly as possible without touching the tool.

He pulled the screwdriver out which was what caused the man to bleed to death (he had crossed the road before his collapse) and had driven away ,leaving him.

I think that, when the accomplice is caught, however well fellow travellers are hiding him, he could well be charged with manslaughter because he caused the death by neglect.

Now, that will be interesting.

I can't comment on the case specifically, Sharron, as I am far too removed from it both in terms of distance and reporting, but when attending first aid courses both in civvy life and in the army reserve one of the first things you were taught was never to remove any penetrating object as they could actually be sealing major blood vessels.

Exactly, and he made it across the road with the weapon in him.

Thank you for reading all that.

Not at all, Sharron, my pleasure. :-)

I read that Vincent was carrying a screwdriver, but was stabbed. Whether it was with the screwdriver or not isn't stated.
Some papers dramatically say he was 'stabbed to death', which sounds like a psycho type stabbing, others say he died of A stab wound.
Mr Osborn-Brooks had severe bruising to the arms, so it sounds like Vincent didn't back off when confronted.
Vincent was found collapsed in the street and was pronounced dead in hospital at 3.37am. The accomplice fled - so, yes, whatever the circumstances, the accomplice knowingly left him, didn't phone for an ambulance, and it will be interesting to see if he's charged with manslaughter.

There will be no revenge then because he's a good bloke too.

*snort*

I was dealing with these so called 'Gypsies' or 'Travellers' back in the late 60's and early 70's in Middleton, Nr Manchester, as part of my job as a Public Health Inspector.

They were thugs then and nothing seems to have changed :-|

For what it's worth we did meet some genuine Gypsies who were attending the Appleby Horse Fair one year. Very nice people.

Sadly, it is only the bad ones that anybody remembers.

This one will stick in the minds of the public for a long time but, do you remember how well the Lockerbie site was illuminated? I bet you don't and you have never wondered how this was so.

There was a showman named John Crowe, who had laid up his generator lorries for the winter so there was no road tax on them. He contacted the police for special permission to drive them there to help.

The emergency services had not provision for illumination in those days and would have had a very difficult job had it not been for him but, strangely, his name was never mentioned.

Same in any society - good and bad.

That's so true

I don't know who said it, or even if I've got it wrong, but someone once said that the good men do dies with them, but the evil men do lives on

We have a few very nice travellers around here but the vast majority are thugs, bullies and downright scum. Nothing is safe with them about we have recently hear from a reliable source that a lorry driver was resting in his cab they stole the battery from the lorry.
Anyone who has their property broken into such as that poor old couple should have the right to defend themselves and their property in any way they can in my opinion

I can understand Sharron’s logic, but how would each of us act in the heat of the moment? Not because a criminal act had gone wrong, but when a friend or relative had suffered a stabbing injury. The natural instinct is to remove the object causing pain.
His accomplice was more interested in running away than caring for his ‘friend’ or even dragging him into the vehicle.

Talk to any genuine Romany and you’ll soon discover that they look down on the ‘lower classes’ of Travellers.

They most certainly do DET. as they are a completely different kettle of fish :-D

Hedge mumpers.

Showmen are not gypsies, as they are sure to tell you, but they all come from a similar root and, even if they are not involved in any way, all travellers will know what is going on.

It is just the same as the British class system really. Every one of us council house tenants is a drug dealer and all the home owners are more intelligent than us to a man.That is just the way it is.

Sharron!

Spot on :-D :-D

I've also lived in Council Housing in my time, as has my OH

I'm no expert on any of this but I've known genuine Romany who are nothing like this group. I'm also no doctor but I know enough from CPR and quite frankly from watching TV shows to know you stop bleeding by leaving the item in the wound or you apply pressure.
Sharron I think you summed it up nicely.