General Chat

Have just caught a bit of an interview with a Greek minister on BBC.

It would appear that many of those houses that were destroyed were built illegally.

Of course, I know nothing of Greek planning laws but I have sat on planning committees at a low level in the past so I know how people despise some planning law here.

Never having been to Greece, I was not aware that those houses were built amongst pine trees with difficult access to the sea, there's sensible! I can see why it would be wrong to build there!

I believe the trees were a major factor here, lighting up like flares.

Very sad situation.

Looks like it might have been an accident waiting to happen.

Why do people lose all their senses next to the sea?

I note that a lot of them are kicking up because of a lack of fire fighting facilities. Perhaps if they didn't treat tax evasion as a national sport, they could afford more. It is still a tragedy though.

What lessons could the Greeks learn from the Grenfell Tower disaster?

But - it appears the houses that caught fire in Greece were built illegally.
Trees alone aren't really the cause.
As for Crofters building 'without a permit' - that was the way of the time - before planning regulations came into force - and happened all over the UK - no 'permit' was required.
Now there are planning regulations, I can assure you, everyone needs to apply for planning permission - no matter how remote the area.

Here's an interesting view from a Greek - who actually lives in Greece:

"Greece’s post-war economic model relied on anarchic, unplanned real-estate development anywhere and everywhere (including ravines and pine forests). That has left us, like any developing country, vulnerable to deadly forest fires in the summer and flash floods in winter (just last winter, 20 people died in houses built on the bed of an ancient creek).
That collective failure is, naturally, aided and abetted by the Greek state’s perpetual lack of preparedness: its failure to clear fields and forests of accumulated kindling during the winter and spring, for example, or to establish and maintain emergency escape routes for residents. Then there are the usual crimes of oligarchy, such as the illegal enclosure of the coast around seaside villas for the purpose of privatizing the beach. Eyewitnesses I spoke to said that many died or were badly injured struggling against the barbed wire that the rich had put between them and the sea."


Full article is here:
https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/factors-behind-deadly-greek-fires-by-yanis-varoufakis-2018-07

Maggie, you didn't take the trouble to read all that did you?

I am surprised it is on here at all being as the idea was mooted that we should stay off each other's threads and I have kept my part of the bargain.

I read the relevant parts :-D
I don't really need the obvious pointed out to me, historical tosh, uninformed opinion put forth as 'fact', and Brexit opinions, but fortunately, I can 'scan' read.
It's a handy tactic when being verbally patronised too - that's when I sort of 'scan' listen. :-D

But surely, Sharron, you had to be informed that "tex avoidance is a Greek national sport" - strange sport - avoiding a typesetting option - fortunately it's wrong. :-D :-D

Where does turpentine come from?

Sharron. Turpentine is distilled from tree resin, mostly pine trees.

I think it was a rhetorical question, Graham. :-D

Is it a little bit inflammable?

and don't pine trees grow everywhere?

edit: though it's mainly sourced from the US and China.

Have you been looking at Google?

Moi? Of course! :-D :-D :-D

I could have copied and pasted half an essay!

And,of course, I should have been in awe of you superior knowledge!

Of course! :-D :-D :-D

Partial quote from an earlier post of Maggies ".......or to establish and maintain emergency escape routes for residents" from a Greek person.

Spot on, and a problem for many older rural subdivisions in Western Australia.

The Margaret River Bush Fires several years ago, played out like a Greek Tragedy, no pun intended.

The fires started when a 'controlled' burn carried out by Government Authorities to reduce fuel loads got out of control in an area of dense bush. This tore through a subdivision which only had one access road, which is where the fire was at its fiercest.

The residents couldn't be evacuated as there was only the one access.

Fortunately, the residents were able to escape to the local beach but it was touch and go for a while, and whilst properties were lost, there was no loss of life

That in a subdivision which had gone through all the legal Planning process

Good point, Allan.
Quite a bit of the sea area in Greece where the fire was had been cordoned off with barbed wire.

" and some damage in the drought of 1975.".........there were droughts in both 75 and 76???

" There is not, never has been and never will be a legal presumption against building due to trees!".........beg to differ.....trees are a major factor here when building...they at best restrict what you can build or where, and at worse stop your building totally.