General Chat

Liz my son has an even stranger theory,he believes this world was used as a prison colony by aliens,and that we are the descendants of prisoners dumped on Earth by them.He reckons that all these sightings are aliens checking up on our progress.To each his own I say.!!! Maddy

William, religion isnt knowledge, it is an assumption, I know that you are now going to say that evolution, too, is an assumption, well if it is , at least it is an assumption that can be looked at scientifically. Off to do more packing!

Hi Sheila, if we're a random collection of chances, where does this desire come from? William

Hi Julia, If a school is for knowledge but not religion, you imply that religion is not worthy of being counted as knowledge. I didn’t say that evolution should be banned from schools – I said that it should be treated as a theory…an unprovable theory with many, many problems. Most theories with such problems are thrown out very quickly. The reason that this one remains is that people don’t WANT to believe in God. Evolution is very comforting to them. In fact, it’s almost a religion… “Of course, I stand to be corrected, but not by an extreme group who are acting like the thought police” – Do you mean someone like Richard Dawkins who starts frothing at the mouth any time evolution is bad-mouthed? Regards, William

Maddy, that is what I believe. The 6 days were periods of time. The day of 24 hours as we know it did not exist then. Liz

When I was at school (many years ago) we were taught that the 6 days were not days as we see them,but each day could have been thousands of years.So evolution could have been involved couldnt it ? MADDY

Hi Mandy, You’re neglecting the possibility that God has chosen to tell us about himself. You’re assuming that all of these books are man’s attempt to understand God. The Bible was written over 1500 years, by numerous people of different cultures and languages. Some were kings, others shepherds. Some lived in tents, others in the most phenomenal palaces. Some had educations better than we have today – others learned all they knew from their parents. And despite this, it is all self-consistent. I know that people talk about the contradictions within scripture – but are they really there or are they red herrings? There are many versions of the Bible – most of them are identical in meaning. “I feel hungry” and “My tummy is rumbling” use different words but say precisely the same thing! Some people do misuse the Bible – who is at fault here? The author of the Bible – or the person misusing it? If put an electric heater in the bath, is the manufacturer to blame for my stupidity? Why blame God for people abusing his Word? May I suggest that you- and others – read the Bible?…perhaps starting with the book of Luke – followed by Acts. And however strange it may seem, pray beforehand and ask God (even if you don’t believe in Him) to help you understand it. “All Scripture is God breathed…” 2 Timothy 3:16 Kind regards, William

I added the above while others were typing. Nice to see that Wulliam and I agree on what I see as the main issue, people have a right to decide for themselves but should be presented with all the facts and theories. Gwynne (now really going to dry my hair)

I don't believe in God, or an intelligent 'designer' of any kind. I think that mankind has a deep desire to feel that there is a purpose to everything and is largely unhappy with the idea that it all happened 'by accident'. I put my faith in science and reason, even if it doesnt answer every question or can prove every theory.

Hi Liz, You don't need to apologise, you explained yourself very well. This debate began on Lucia's thread about religion in schools. I said there that religion as fact has no place in any school. Children, in my view, should be taught about all major faiths, just as they should be presented with major scientific theories and should be given the thinking skills to decide for themselves. It isn't my job to tell them what to think or believe. I don't think anyone has that right. Gwynne (off to dry my hair now)

Gwynne, Didn't realise that about Darwin, thanks for putting me straight! You learn something new everyday don't you? Julie xxx

Hi CB, You’re right to say that there will always be disagreement – but does that mean we should not seek the truth? – not our own perception of the truth but the actual truth. It does exist! Somebody else has commented on the Bible – I shall respond to you both in one reply. Regards! William

But William, a school isnt for religion, it is for knowledge and if that makes evolution something that should be banned from the classrooms then we are going to be lacking in scientists to probe into this area. I am not a scientist but the things that I have learnt over my lifetime lead me to beleive that I beleive that the theory of evolution holds more water than the claim of ID. Of curse, I stand to be corrected, but not by an extreme group who are acting like the thought police

Hi Gwynne, I am also a teacher – in a Christian school. Both creation and evolution are taught. Students are free to come to their own conclusions. I don’t know about the ID fanatics in the States – whether they want ID taught as fact with no discussion of evolution. If that’s what they want then, yes, I agree that is wrong. By all means discuss evolution – but not so blindly that it’s obvious flaws can’t be seen! Some would call me a fanatic! Regards, William

My father was a Baptist minister and a devout Christian. He was also extremely knowledgable about the Bible (he once rendered a couple of JWs speechless by saying, when they quoted the Bible to him, 'Yes, but when you take it back to the original Aramaic, the actual interpretation is...). He always told us that, when reading and trying to understand the Bible, you have to remember the context in which it was written. It was written in the Middle East a couple of thousand years ago. Whilst he believed implicitly that the Bible is the word of God, when applying it to our lives today we need to understand the history behind it and the culture of the people alive at the time. I am sorry I cannot explain better, and I am still struggling with what I believe in myself, but I think I believe that God has guided evolution. I do not see it as incompatible. Liz

Hi Julia, You say, 'ANY group of people who seek to tell other people what to believe and then enforce this belief and way of teaching in schools are a dangerous and extreme bunch,...' The trouble is that this is only ever said of various religions. I think that people who insist that kids are taught nothing about religion/creation are doing exactly what they claim shouldn't be done. It is not possible to be 'neutral' on this issue. William

Hi, I, too, believe that the world was created in 6 days. For a lot of years, I thought that Genesis was an 'outline'. However, after watching David Attenborough on his planet programme in 1979, when he commented that evolution had many problems (even tho he is an evolutionist), I started to think about it Humans are at a disadvantage to animals. If humans came down from the trees, they would be immediately overwhelmed by the wild animals (if you go on safari, you need vehicles and often guns) There is no evidence of links between species - or even within species. Darwin thought that as different breeds of dogs could be bred so it could between species. This is not the case - all hybrids are barren. 'Inbetween' animals could not survive, (by this I mean that eg birds could only survive when feathers are fully formed.) So all jumps between species are huge. I have never yet seen a wildlife programme where the comentator didn't say that these animals were well designed for their souroundings. Evolution only sets out to say 'how' things happened, it certaily can't say why. There a a number of scientists who are so opposed to the idea of God (Prof Richard Hawkins is one) that they start from the premise that there is no God, and therefore anyone who doesn't agree with them are wrong, and wont accept evidence which allows even the possibility of God. That's where I stand Anne

Well, I'm not a Christian (although I was brought up in the Christian faith and attended a CofE school for seven years), and I don't believe in the literal translation of the books of The Bible, but I DO believe that there is some vastly superior intelligence which is responsible for the creation of not only this planet and all that has ever existed on it, but also the entire Universe. It's just that present-day scientists aren't clever enough to have discovered what it's all about yet - and I doubt that will happen any time soon, if ever. The Judaeo-Christian Bible was translated into Latin by Christian scholars, whose beliefs biased them into intepreting what they wrote in the way they wished to present the information contained on the original scrolls. The Roman Church did its best to suppress all opposition to its principles over many centuries. The Protestant Lutheran and Anglican (CofE) Churches dispensed with some of the beliefs and practises of Roman Catholicism in the 1500s, and the King James version of The Bible was published in the early 1600s. All of these translations carry their own interpretations of the original writings, and the changes in use of language over centuries has probably led to a vast number of misunderstandings. Belief is a matter for the individual - and none of us, however clever or well-qualified, will ever know the complete answers to questions such as 'How and why was our planet and life on it created?' We just have to accept that some believe one thing, and others believe another. Arguing about it all is divisive and achieves little, if anything. CB >|<

Hi Wulliam, That's your belief which you are entitled to but many Christians do not believe in the literal word of the OT and thus think otherwise. That doesn't make them any less Christian, in my view. Or in theirs, no doubt. People should read around issues and decide for themselves. Not be told what to think. My job as a teacher is to encourage young people to think for themselves it isn't my job to tell them what to believe. In the US the ID fanatics (I don't include you in that number) want ID taught as fact and no discussion of evolution. I have no problem with them both being taught as theories and let people make up their own minds. Gwynne

I think Gwynne summed it up in a nutshell and nut being the operative phrase in this instance: 'The theory of ID came from The Discovery Institute which is a conservative Christian think tank in the US.' Have you seen what these conservative christians are doing in the US and their blooming president is one also ? ANY group of people who seek to tell other people what to beleive and then enforce this belief and way of teaching in schools are a dangerous and extreme bunch, and we all know where the extremists of any group finally lead to and it aint nowhere good