General Chat

Hi Rose I'm so glad you put this thread up.

I watched the piece tonight with tears. I had the most wonderful trip to Zimbabwe in 1995 and it is just terrible to see how things have changed. Harare was a bustling, modern, friendly city - now there are no cars, no work, no food etc. We met such wonderful people - it is awful to think what their lives have been like since.

Terrible statistics of the average life expectancy - early 30's - I just wouldn't have believed it when we were there. Yes there were a few beggars, but no more than in London, the vast majority of people seemed happy and healthy and above the poverty line.

The only way to effect change I think is for the UN (if they are not completely toothless) to go in and depose the government and control the country until truly independent elections can be guaranteed. A lot of international aid of all types will be needed to set them back on the road to prosperity.

I hope Gordon Brown has taken some notice of the Archbishop of York, who spoke on TV tonight, and will do his best to get some action. I think the time for sanctions is long past - these poor people need help NOW!

Maz. XX

Rose I know what you are saying...... but i just get so frustrated trying to say what I mean........

Rose & everyone

Sorry if I am wrong

Kim

I believe that I am right in saying that the people of Zimbabwe did not "run it into the ground" ,it was known as the bread basket of africa with a very good economy until the last few years when Mugabe's excesses grew and spiralled out of control as always happens with dictators. Throwing 'white's ' off their farms affected the whole local community who worked on them....he was not thinking of his people...which I believe was the reason many wanted Smith out and the country given back to the people it actually belonged to!

It is not the people's fault that the man who promised them their country back turned out to be so evil.
I use Hitler as an example of how easy it is to let a tyrant take hold of a country even when perhaps the majority of the people don't want him!

The people of Zimbabwe cannot be held responsible for the actions of Mugabe and his minions.....and exactly how a grandmother looking after nine orphans, opposition leaders who are beaten to a bloody pulp etc can "Rise up" against a dictator with the police/army/and general thugs at his command ,is a bit beyond me!

Rosex

I need to leave this thread now!" As I dont want to upset or insult anyone........... but I will say this...... we of the land of free thinking, and supposedly opportunity....... there are fellow human beings out there that are just trying to survive, not by riches wealth, politics or otherwise ....... you know ............ just you and me......... have a thought for them and their families

Twiglet

To be honest I would.

I know most wouldn't, but SHE enabled my Mum to finally have respect for herself by allowing her to purchase her own home just before she died.

This is going off on a tangent, I am sorry, will bale out now

Kim

Was that at the time that Thatcher promised that we all wanted, fortunately when she went out of power we did not have guns to our heads or to our childrens .............. how would you vote in those circumstances

You have your right to opinion kim, but let me say this on basis of fact. We as the uk elected Thatcher as a prime minister............ who of our generation would do the same?

Correct if I'm wrong but

In the late 70's early 80's everyone was against Smith, even to the point, an embargo was placed against Rhodesia by the world, but the polutation there were fed and watered.

Then every one wanted the country given back to the blacks, as they called them, protests, lobbying, the works, and what have they done with the country??? they ran into the ground.

In the early 80's I worked with quite a few people who had to flee from Rhodesia, leaving everything behind because of the violence.

Not saying we should not help, but they chose their own path, it was what THEY demanded, it was granted, because of violence!

Sorry if I offend but this is my own personal opion, if they could rise up then why can't they now?

Kim

nudge because I believe its more important than oil.........

Then maybe we need to petition OUR government.....

Hi Ellan and Twiglet ,have been reading
your replies with interest!
I think that contact must be made with the 'opposition' parties there before anything else is done, so that when Mugabe does fall or is pushed, there is not that horrendous 'gap' (as there was after Saddam went in Iraq) where the country as you say 'descends into chaos' and Mugabe's cohorts just step into his shoes.
If the opposition parties know that the UN will supervise the free elections and they are certain that aid will be forthcoming to rebuild the economy it will be something.

No consolation to those suffering now though, it is always the way ,it seems.

Rosex

then I agree with you Ellan...... something should be done instead of these so called super powers pussy footing around

Sorry Ellan but do you think chaos is not already there, speaking as one of the miniums if that was my country I would be in the middle of the chaos to feed my children........ but I agree with your point, however sitting back as the western governments do is going to achieve nothing but a bigger ego for Mugabe

And please dont fire me down on this....... if we can join the US and go to war with our army........... later subject............. to defend oil. Then why cant we as a 'civilized' people do the same for the innocent that are suffering.......

No and to my mind that leaves one choice ........... assassination

Some what of his statement I would agree with........ in the context of,,,,,,,,, would the uk be happy for Egypt or France to rule us.......... no......... but let it be a fair election, with Robert M in charge is there much chance of that..............

Ellan you said it all....... what Zimbabwe has we as the western world can aquire from other places ........... why should our government go in there because innocent people are suffering........ it sickens me

I can't actually disagree on the subject of oil..........going back somewhat it was no coincidence that the Falklands was fought for.........mineral rights! i wonder if there had been nothing of value there whether they would have been handed over to argentina?

I honestly take nothing from the soldiers that served in Iraq........ please dont hail me....... I am talking about governments not the army that are ruled by them