General Chat

On the point of local customs/laws, we have had an englishman arrive here recently. His plan is to bring his girlfriend over here to live. He plans to start a family over here whilst unmarried.
NOT the thing to do, if he had spent some time researching the place he would have found out that to have a child when unmarried is likely to land the mother in jail, the child in a nursing home, and the father also in jail. (even having sex before marriage is punishable with jail)

This is not the only lack of information he has, local customs etc meant nothing to him, be was blindly ignorant, and without assistance from us could well have landed himself into big trouble.

Thank you, Cynthia,
That makes sense and makes their feelings more understandable. Lets hope that the poor child does not get into trouble too, either for not speaking against the idea - although we are told that it was the child's idea we do not really know what happened, only what the papers tell us.- or for suggesting it, if he did.
We also have to remember that some of these countries are being dragged 'kicking and screaming' into the 21st century, partly by modern technology, when they are really still in the 12th C or earlier. Also it is not actually that long ago that we were ducking witches and worse, and there are bits in the Bible about not making graven images or bowing down to them.
Eileen

Thank you Rose - that is useful. Also serves to remind that the Islamic religion is monotheistic as is Christianity. The two religions are very similar and are considered by some theologians as two different ways of worshipping the same God.

George, relief aid actually does get to where it is needed these days more than it used to. Could you show me the facts you have based your statement on?
It is not a perfect world but I would rather we provided aid in the hope that some gets through rather than turn our backs on more needy people!

Thought the following might be of interest to some, might be (broadly) relevant in terms of giving the name of the Prophet to a toy?.

Rosex


"There is no specific, or explicit ban in the Koran on images of Allah or the Prophet Muhammad - be they carved, painted or drawn.

However, chapter 42, verse 11 of the Koran does say: "[Allah is] the originator of the heavens and the earth... [there is] nothing like a likeness of Him."

This is taken by Muslims to mean that Allah cannot be captured in an image by human hand, such is his beauty and grandeur. To attempt such a thing is seen as an insult to Allah.

The same is believed to apply to Muhammad.

Chapter 21, verses 52-54 of the Koran read: "[Abraham] said to his father and his people: 'What are these images to whose worship you cleave?' They said: 'We found our fathers worshipping them.' He said: 'Certainly you have been, you and your fathers, in manifest error.'"

From this arises the Muslim belief that images can give rise to idolatry - that is to say an image, rather than the divine being it symbolises, can become the object of worship and veneration.

What does Islamic tradition say on the matter?

Islamic tradition or Hadith, the stories of the words and actions of Muhammad and his Companions, explicitly prohibits images of Allah, Muhammad and all the major prophets of the Christian and Jewish traditions.

More widely, Islamic tradition has discouraged the figurative depiction of living creatures, especially human beings. Islamic art has therefore tended to be abstract or decorative.

Shia Islamic tradition is far less strict on this ban. Reproductions of images of the Prophet, mainly produced in the 7th Century in Persian, can be found.

Just going to put in my two penn'th.
The name for Mohammed is ok for humans but not for objects as that would make it an icon or idol and muslims don't allow things or faces to represent their god. As far as I'm aware.
But it's a farce whatever...it's been hyjacked for political ends not religious. I wonder how they would have coped with comedians like Dave Allen !!

Freedom of choice. If a teacher or indeed any professional goes to foreign climes to share knowledge and expertise then that is great. But we
are far too good at then expecting the local populace to excuse us.
Saints Alive - the argument does not go "out the window". Just because it doesn't happen does not mean it is right or wrong. I think that individuals (not communities) who choose to settle in the UK should endeavour to integrate within our society. The fact that there are many cultural differences within all the major connurbations of this country may cause problems but it is also indicative of how we are as a country - one of the most multi-cultural societies in the world in fact.
Acceptance is the first step towards widespread tolerance - but we are not the Sudan.

I think the poor woman will be more upset at being deported than spending 2 weeks in jail,,,,,,,,sorry but if you **offend** as seen to be by that country regardless of our feelings then that country rules come into force,,,,,,,just as they do in any other part of the world,,,,,,

crazy law in our eyes but there it is,,,,,,we cant change it,,,,,,,,,,,,

At the risk of getting severely pounded by the PC brigade, and anyone else, I don't think we should be allowing foreigners to buy large tracts of our land, and houses, large or small.
I don't think we should be going to other people's countries and telling them what to do either - look how much damage missionaries did to native cultures. We should not be buying houses and land in poor European countries as holiday homes. If everyone stayed at home and minded their own business there would be a lot less trouble.
--Puts on tin helmet and waits for brickbats--
Eileen

well I hope that no more of our teachers choose to go there to teach. it is not safe while they follow these laws, One step out of line, they don't need much excuse. Thank goodness though that she didn't get the 40 lashes.

Ann
Glos

And it was religious incitement that got this woman arrested

George, Britain provides aid for many countries. Would you rather that aid was not provided and those various peoples suffered terribly?

It appears that we are very good at being British , but when one looks around at some of our communitys who have come from abroad , and have settled down here yet cannot even speak english because in the community they live in they dont have to , then Errol your when in Rome statement go's out the window .

We also have (fairly newly introduced) laws here that cover racial incitement.
However, we are applying British values and beliefs to something that, at the end of the day, has happened in another country.
Once we go down the "we are right they are wrong" route we end up no better than they.
Is it also wrong that in certain countries one can be punished and, indeed, receive the lash for brewing and distributing alcohol purely because we can have a drink in the UK?
We have to understand that this is a different culture with its own rules and regulations - whether it is right or wrong.

Errol How could anyone have known that naming a teddy Mohammed would put them at risk of being lashed 40 times, thats not local culture thats brainless barbarism.

You mean like in this country Errol ???


see a lot of that happening I dont think.

And the children would genuinely have a grasp of what would be deemed by adults right and wrong?
Also, it should be down to the individual to find out what is or is not acceptable.
How many times do we say that immigrants to Britain should find out about our culture etc?
As someone said earlier - when in Rome.
It is surely the individual's responsibility to ensure that local feelings, laws, religious beliefs, sensitivity etc is not upset.
One rule for them and another for us?

And as I've said before they are quick enough to take our aid , but not to quick to allow leniency for a genuine mistake , which begs the question do we allow people to go to these countries to help with education and aid if these sort of issues arise.

I have to say that although I do think the punishment is harsh she has to be aware that it was unwise to give the teddy that name, however innocent, she could have said to the boy that it would be best to name the teddy something else as she wouldn't want to get mixed up who was who.
Interestingly I have just read on AOL news that it was a secretary at the school who made the complaint. Perhaps some old scores being settled??

Sorry Errol , the children named the bear , and if the country excepted the lady to teach at one of there schools surely they should have given all information about religion etc , but of course seeing as the Sudanese are a fine upstanding country its all our fault.