Genealogy Chat

Old


I just do not trust trees on ancestry ............. too many people post information without any kind of documentation, then others copy that information ....... and one never knows what is right or wrong.


IF that tree that you are referring has documentation ............. such as information taken from the actual Parish register (before 1837) or bmd certificates (after July 1 1837), then that is another story.



I found the following on the new beta.familysearch site ....... information taken from the Parish register

The url for this site is www.familysearch.org/#form=advanced-records


England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name: William Shakespear Quick
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 10 Jun 1832
Baptism/Christening Place: SAINT MARY,NEWINGTON,SURREY,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 02 May 1831
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Joseph Quick
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Charlotte
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C05563-2
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 307703
Reference Number:


England Marriages, 1538–1973 for Joseph Quick

Groom's Name: Joseph Quick
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Charlotte Branning
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 28 Nov 1821
Marriage Place: Saint George The Martyr,Southwark,Surrey,England
Groom's Father's Name:
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name:
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M02244-4
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 307692
Reference Number:





Please also remember that ages on the 1841 Census were rounded down to the nearest 5 for all adults over the age of 15


so Jospeh could have been between the ages of 40 and 44

and Charlotte aged 30-34.



sylvia

After Emmerdale..~~~~~

What say you Sir on the Martha Nicholls/Theobald/Pattrick story that I have put forward???

Thank you
Fans...

I would like a fresh pair of eyes on the following:

Checking on the 'mysterious' William Shakspear Quick, I looked at various trees on Ancestry and established his father was Joseph born 1801. His mother was Charlotte Branning.
On the 1841 Census, Joseph is shown as aged 40 and Charlotte aged 30.

The marriage banns have their marriage in 1821 - Charlotte 10!!!

1841 Census shows first child aged 14, so Charlotte was 16 when she gave birth.

Any thoughts?

I will be editing on here....

From Familysearch.
groom's name: Thomas Nicholls
bride's name: Martha Pattrick
marriage date: 1836
marriage place: All Saints Sudbury, Bts, Suffolk, England

1841
NICHOLLS, Thomas M 25 1816 Suffolk
NICHOLLS, Martha F 25 1816 Suffolk
THEOBALD, Sarah F 15 1826 Suffolk
Sudbury...........Probably Marthas half sister???Shame the 1841 does not give relationships

Civil Parish:
All Saints Municipal Borough:
Sudbury Address:
Church Street, All Saints, Sudbury County:
Suffolk

1851
NICHOLLS, Thomas Head Married M 37 1814 Hand Loom Weaver (Silk)
Sudbury
Suffolk
NICHOLLS, Martha Wife Married F 37 1814 Hand Loom Weaver (Silk)
Sudbury
Suffolk
NICHOLLS, Thomas E Son M 8 1843 Scholar
Sudbury
Suffolk
NICHOLLS, Henry W Son M 5 1846 Scholar
Sudbury
Suffolk
NICHOLLS, David A Son M 2 1849 Scholar
Sudbury
Suffolk
NICHOLLS, Albert J Son M 0 (6 MOS) 1851
Sudbury
Suffolk
Registration District:
Sudbury

Civil Parish:
St Peter Municipal Borough:
Sudbury Address:
Burkitts Lane, St Peter, Sudbury County:
Suffolk

1861
NICHOLLS, Martha Head Widow F 47 1814 Silk Weaver
Sudbury
Suffolk
NICHOLLS, Thomas Son Unmarried M 18 1843 Carpenter
Sudbury
Suffolk
NICHOLLS, Henry Son M 14 1847 Shoe Maker
Sudbury
Suffolk
NICHOLLS, David Son M 12 1849 Errand Boy
Sudbury
Suffolk
NICHOLLS, Albert Son M 10 1851 Scholar
Sudbury
Suffolk
NICHOLLS, Peter Son M 7 1854 Scholar
Sudbury
Suffolk
NICHOLLS, Marth Daughter F 5 1856 Scholar
Sudbury
Suffolk
RADLEY, Precilla Boarder Unmarried F 17 1844 Silk Weaver
Bulmer
Essex
Registration District:
Sudbury

Civil Parish:
All Saints Municipal Borough:
Sudbury Address:
Garden Place, All Saints, Sudbury County:
Suffolk

1871
NICHOLLS, Martha Mother F 56 1815 Suffolk
NICHOLLS, Albert J Son M 20 1851 Suffolk
NICHOLLS, Peter Son M 18 1853 Suffolk
NICHOLLS, Martha J Daughter F 15 1856 Suffolk
THEOBALD, Samuel Brother-In-Law M 40 1831 Essex(Bulmer)
THEOBALD, Frederick Nephew M 19 1852 Essex

Registration District:
Shoreditch

Civil Parish:
Shoreditch Municipal Borough:
Address:
Bridport Place, Shoreditch County:
London, Middlesex

I think that in this instance you will find that Martha and Samuel are step brother and sister and Brother/sister in law was often used on census to denote that relationship..
The same as you often see Daughter/son in law to denote STEP relationship on census...

Hence her using either name as her maiden name...Her birth name and her step fathers name..

Deaths Mar 1858
Nicholls Thomas Sudbury 4a 311

Possible from Familysearch

name: Martha Pattrick
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 16 Jul 1813
baptism/christening place:
ALL SAINTS,SUDBURY,SUFFOLK,ENGLAND
birth date: 04 Jul 1813
father's name: Samuel Pattrick
mother's name: Elizabeth



name: Samuel Theobald
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 23 Mar 1827
baptism/christening place: Bulmer, Essex, England
father's name: Samuel Theobald
mother's name: Elizabeth

OR

name: Samuel Theobald
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 21 Jun 1829
baptism/christening place: INDEPENDENT,BOCKING,ESSEX,ENGLAND
birth date: 26 Aug 1828
father's name: John Theobald
mother's name: Elizabeth

I have seen 2 different surnames used on certs before and it has almost always been because the person using them was either Illegit and gained a step father who's name they also used or the father of the person died while they were very young and they used their step fathers name also...

Have those possibilities been looked into for Martha?

The death cert?Which one do you mean you will send for please?
I can not find one in 1879 to correspond with his age or area at death then on any site for any refs to send for it so as I am so nosey and impatient please could you give what you have for then or did it just come from someone elses tree?
The only one to suit as I said would seem to be the one in 1915.....

But as many know I have been known to be wrong...Not often tis true,but known to happen on occasion....

Fans.... :-D

Fanny FBG

I do not have the death certificate for William Shakspear Quick, but I think I will order it just to see if your theory is correct - watch this space.

With regard to the second mystery, both Thomas Nicholls and his bride Martha Pattrick/Theobald were born in Sudbury Suffolk, and married in Sudbury. Their first child, Thomas Cranmer born 1837, died as an infant in 1838,

On Ancestry I looked at someone's tree that showed Samuel Theobald marrying a xxxPattrick (have forgotten the name and did not make a note - slapped wrist. The Census confusion I mentioned was showing Martha Nicholls living with her brother-in-law Samuel Theobald - this could make sense if he had married Marth's sister. Also noted was a nephew named Theobald - I presume Samuel's son. Must dig deeper to establish the relationship between Martha and Samuel. But it does not answer the fundamental question of why she used two different surnames on the birth certificates.

Hello Friends,
It seems that it is not only my family that are a MYSTERY, Bloomin Macleods.
Spent lots of time today at Oncology and pharmacies etc guess its a change at least it gets me out of the house.
Hope everyone is well, hope you get a proper job soon Josie, so pleased that your bank are on the ball.
You will soon be as fit as a flea by the sound of it Sylvia, good luck to you. You sound so positive which is important, sadly Ron is the complete opposite which makes life very hard at the moment.
Viv enjoy your weekend away. How is Ishbel and her brood, I do wish we lived closer I would love to see them.
Maybe that carpet is not so far away Cynthia, perhaps O H will surprise you with a trip to the carpet shop, I hope so anyway..
Wish Ann could win the lottery then she need not do all the overtime.
Ron is waking up and wanting attention so cheerio for now
Love to all
Evelyn X

What it boils down to is that "I believe"that William Quick 1831(ish) who dies in 1915? as William S Quick may be the same man as William S Quick born 1837(ish)?
They both have same birth place and Occupation and William Quick 1831(ish)does not want to be found on census prior to 1881(by me anyway).
And he is on 1891 with "son"William...

Unless of course OLD has the death cert from 1879 to prove my suspicion wrong...

Or of course as suggested he could be a cousin of Carolines hubby and down as brother in case eyebrows were raised.
But why is he down on later census as widower then?
But I could not find a death in the right area,of the right age(ish) in 1879 for him.

So it would be nice to know if the death cert is in OLDs grubby little mitts.... :-D


May look into this later if I get time while sorting clothes for weekend away in Somerset,dyeing hair..Cyn?? :-P I like it not peppered.!
Getting HID sorted and Bezzies orders on running the ranch while we are away..

Another family mystery concerns a brother of my 2 x great grandfather. His wife went by two surnames.

Thomas Nicholls married Martha Pattrick/Theobald in 1836.

On the childrens' birth certificates, the mother's name was either Pattrick or Theobald depending on who registered the birth, Thomas or Martha. Apparently not uncommon in Bulmer Essex, but a mystery all the same.

And there is also Census confusion after Thomas dies.

But it would be nice to have some dates for Martha and Thomas and place of birth at least please OLD,saves a lot of trawling through census to find them..... :-D

Well, if Old understands that he must be very clever......cos I don't. But I ain't clever. I'm sure you know what you are talking about Fans......






Moving on.........


Josie......what a nasty surprise you had with your bank problems. Good to know that they were on the ball.......could have been dreadful for you.


I suppose getting a man in to decorate the bedroom is a bit of a luxury but, neither of us are very talented in that direction. I can paint and suchlike but I have never wallpapered a room. The colour scheme is cream and pale green......walls cream.....with cream and green duvet etc.


I have a yearning for new carpeting downstairs and on the stairs and landing. Mentioned it to my husband and, from the look on his face, I will have to continue yearning..................sigh. The one we had not long been in before we bought the house so it didn't seem right to rip it up and it saved us some expense at the beginning. The traditional pattern is rather 'busy' and I want a more 'restful' plainer carpet. I will continue to dream.


Must get on with my messaging........Love to all. Cx

1901

QUICK, William Pauper Widower M 70 1831 Woodcutter
Lambeth
London
19 Registration District:
Camberwell

Civil Parish:
Camberwell Municipal Borough:
Address:
Camberwell County:Camberwell Workhouse, Constance Road East Dulwich
London

1911

QUICK, William Patient Widower M 80 1831 Mould Cutter Not Obtainable

Registration District:
Wandsworth Sub District:
Streatham Enumeration District:
86 Parish:
Wandsworth Borough

Address:
Tooting Common London S W
Tooting Bec Asylum For Imbeciles, TOOTING BEC ASYLUM

Caroline and Alice disappear after 1881...Well I cant find them
Alfred marries and lives in London....

I can not find this William Quick before 1881 so my wild theory is that he moved in with Caroline..(Or is the same man given that his occupation and place of birth are the same)Took her name to make things easier for all without a marriage and when she dies(cant find a death yet either though)he takes William with him as per 1891 census and dumps Alice and Alfred maybe as he could not keep them??

If you look for Alice and Alfreds births they do not appear in Camberwell or anywhere on FREEBMD that I can find and also if Alfred IS William S Quicks child then Caroline must have had a rather long pregnancy or just been pregnant when he died....I am also suspicious that Alice was not Carolines husbands child as the gap between her and William is rather large..!

Deaths Mar 1915
Quick William S 84 Wandsworth 1d 1025

Wether that is him or not I dont know BUT do you have Carolines husband William Shakespear Quicks death cert so you know for sure that he died in 1879?
My feeling is that the 2 Williams are one and the same?

Kiwibird

Worrying about your card - fortunately Bank acted responsibly in this case,.

Brother was used on the Census, where the descriptions are normally pretty good.

My Great grandfather was living with his cousin to whom he was apprenticed. I took this to mean his first cousin and spent many fruitless hours searching for the link. In the end I found he was living with the son of his father's uncle - not sure what that makes the relationship. One good thing was it opened up a whole new line of investigation.

Morning all - up bright & early today - not really feeling like death wamed up - had a bad night - woke at 00:30 & thought I had been asleep ages - then had fun trying to get back to sleep again - woke at 2 & sort of driffted - so when alarm went off at 3;30 - I jolted out of bed trying not to disturb my Oh that soon. However he had had a bad night too - so both got up.

I now look forward to a 12.5 hour day here.

Tried to watch the last WDYTYA & fell asleep 3 times - but it looked ok a story & she wasn't as bad as i first thought. i enjoyed the series this time - much better than the last one. Only thing that kept me awake last night was the Celebrity masterchef I recorded from the afternoon - very sad to see Linda go - I do enjou that programme & Strictly tomorrow.

Sue sounds lovely I love that colour as well - my bedroom is white with a hint of pink in the paint & a pale pink & white stripe wallpaper with very small rosebuds & decorative squiggles - we like it. I have applewhite paint in the lounge - but the whole house needs a refresh really. Oh for a big lotto win to sort us out.

Josie what a wonder your bank is - what a day you had too - hope things get better for you - new job on the horizon maybe !!!!! At least you ahve the Rugby to look forward to and summer.

Cynthia - does it cost a lot getting a little man in? What luxury - i had decorating - love taking all the old stuff off - don't like putting it all back on again - OH does thank goodness - my mum use to love decorating if she had th right equipment.

Fans - knew you coudl do it - fasinating all these brickwalls & queries

Sylvia - good luck with the Physio - didn't realise how m,uch it would affect your arm though - keep up the good work you are doing very well & have come so far in so short a time.

Waves & hugs to all the absent ones ((((((~~~~~~~~~~~~))))))

Well another fun day in paradise to look forward to - but not working the weekend - so chance to catch up on things (not sleep) Korean GP this weekend - off early tomorrow as visiting kent record office so we leav home around 6am - sunday should be a lie in but no its GP & an early one - so the alarm will be set early for that as well - i think the programme starts at 6am.

will try & pop back in lunchtime

Take care all ;-) <3 ;-) <3 ;-) <3 ;-) <3

Hi all
xxx


Josie ..... how lucky that your bank was on the ball!


Hope nothing else happened!!



I started physio to day, aimed at getting full motion back in my arm ............ I have to go see here twice a week for the next 3 or 4 weeks!




s
xx

Hi everyone, It's Friday and a beautiful sunny Spring day, but having just got home after 4 hours work today.

I had to check it wasn't Friday the 13th!!
My new Phone book was in the letterbox and I checked to see our listing.

I am not listed either at my old address or my new one even though my phone number has not changed.

So I rang up my Phone company to complain and an automated voice told me to email them if it was not urgent.
So While waiting for my Computer to kick into live [it's old and slow like me]
The Phone rang and it was my Bank asking whether I had just Made a $160 Transaction with my MasterCard.
I had not, and my Card had not been stolen. Some how someone had hacked my Card. The Bank luckily had cancelled the transaction because I had insufficient funds [thank goodness]
So They have cancelled my Card and am sending me a new one.

Hopefully I will have no more nasty surprises today.

Hi Old, another possibility for your William, could he in fact be a Cousin of William Shakespear Quick if not a brother.

Catch you all later Josie
:-) :-) <3

Fans

All the children are Carolines with her late husband William Shakspear Quick.

William (unmarried) is described as 'Brother' I would not think that William S Quick had a brother William (although in a family I know they named two sons Ricky & Richard) and my searches did not reveal a brother for William S.

Thanks for looking at this - afresh pair of eyes is always good. Mine now very ready for bed.

Ah....bless her......she's arrived. Fanks Fans. :-D



Hope all are well. You're right Sue, things to get harder to do as we get older. We're hoping to have our bedroom decorated soon but have got someone in.....we will strip the walls though.


Hope you've found all those email you lost Ann.........



Time has flown today......bedtime already. Love to all. Cx <3

This one Old??


1881 England Census about Caroline Quick
Name: Caroline Quick
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Newington, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Camberwell
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 13 & 15 Odell Street
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)
Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: St George
Caroline Quick 40
William Quick 51..........Unmarried
Frederick Quick 20
Mary Ann Quick 18
Caroline Quick 15
James Quick 12
William Quick 10
Alice Quick 3
Alfred Quick 1


Same man on 1891 as same birth place and occupation...Is William junior Carolines son really maybe?

1891 England Census about William Quick
Name: William Quick
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Head.......Widower????
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth
Civil parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Georges
Town: Peckham
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: St George
Name Age
William Quick 60
William Quick 18

Will look more tomorrow,too tired to be much use now...

Night all

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi Everyone

I have had the OH home for a few days so of course he wanted to paint our bedroom,we are sleeping across from our room in the lounge.
I thought it would be best to take everything out of the room to paint ,I have also taken down all the draps and voils give them all a good wash .
We have just finished it took us a good two days ,and we can see we are getting older and can't do the same amount of work as we used too .

We have decided we just need to slow down and we can still do everything we always have .

We are really pleased how it came out ,it is a light mint green colour ...not everyones taste but it always feels clean to me .
Anyway tomorrow the carpet cleaner is coming so by tomrrow night we should be back in our own Bedroom again.

We are both very tired tonight ,so I will say goodnight and try to catch up on the missed post tomrrow.

Love to everyone.
Suex <3 <3 <3

Morning all - drizzling down here in the south - very dark - but peaceful for me to have a quick nose around on here for a few mins.

We lost all our emails again yesterday - we were all floundering around here & the systems ran really slowly.

Managed to get two days early OT so should be ok & not work Sunday - have now worked 11 days straight through (well 10.5 as i only did half day on Sunday but it was very busy sat & Sunday fro a change.

Fantastic news about the dentist - no chocolate buffet then

Must log in the phone

Will try & pop back in at lunch time

Take care <3 <3 <3 <3

Hi Arthur,

Fans told us yesterday that she wouldn't have any electricity for most of today so you will have to bear with her.......that's what you get for living in the wilds of Wales I suppose.....hopefully, she will be connected soon.




It's been a drizzley miserable day here today but at least it's been warm rain!! :-D


Had the grandchildren and it's amazing how quiet it is whilst they are busy doing their homework.........it's funny not to have to 'entertain' them more.....they can do that themselves now!


Hope everyone is keeping well - it would be good to hear from some of our friends again. Love. Cx.