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Annie, that's absolutely wonderful....thank you so very much for all your efforts. <3



To all other friends, please check through Annie's findings before adding any comments - to save time and duplication of effort.

For those who look further into some of Annie's queries, please pm Annie with your findings and she will add them to the post.

Many, many, thanks. :-D

Hi everyone,

Just wondering if anyone is able to visit the LMA in the near future?

It seems as though the records for the next two most likely parishes for Evelyn's baptism are held at the LMA. If no one can help, I will contact their Family Research Centre.

Thanks. :-D

Back again............


Things have moved on just a little.


Evelyn has found a note given to her by her recently deceased brother in the 1980's.

The note says:

She has found a piece of paper which was given to her by her recently deceased brother, in 1980's.



The note says.

"Born Diane Leslie Macleod, India,4th or 5th June 1906 , father served there with Seaforth Highlanders.

Returned to Scotland ,Fort George, Inverness.

Father killed in car crash, Diane then went to live with Aunt Kate in Stornoway,

There were cousins there in the household mothers favourite was called Donald.

I have no knowledge of mum's mother as she never mentioned her, I always thought she probably died giving birth to mum.. I don't know when mum moved to London only know she worked at Springfield Mental Hospital,she met Dad and the rest you know. "


++++++++++++++++++


I have had a word with Kathy who is more than willing to check Scottish deaths to see if Robert died in Scotland........so please, there is no need for anyone to use credits for SP. :-)


Kathy's thoughts are that it is quite possible that the Diane was fostered out to a family rather than being sent to blood relatives.

So, does anyone have a clue as to how to go about searching for a possible foster child in Scotland during the period c1906-1920?? :-S :-S :-S

Cynthia

I will get on to searching the incoming for Robert and Diane ,my Ancestry does give me a lot of incomings to Uk and F.M.P should have more info.


Sue :-)

Edit
If Robert did die in the uk I wonder if this one fits (appoligies if this Death Reg has already beem posted :-)

..England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915
about Robert Macleod Name: Robert Macleod
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1911
Age at Death: 54
Registration district: Wandsworth
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 537

If he died in 3rd q 1911 he should be on the census.
If it is true that he was dead when Diane married, perhaps he was killed in WW1.
If he was a widower, it could explain why Diane was sent to Stornoway.
Just another theory, to add to the hundreds.

But if he died in a car crash it would more than likely be in Scotland around Fort St George surely.


I have looked on India Office Family research site and also FIBIS site but as we don't know where they lived in India there are lots of Cemeteries.

In just one of the burial index for Benghal there is 44 pages of burials.

It will take sometime looking through it all.



Thinking outside the box..

Has anyone thought that Macleod/Mcleod could be one of the fathers names not nessessarily be his srurname.

It could be also DL's mothers maiden name.

Hi.

Now that we know about Robert having been killed in a car crash, I think Kathy is picking up on most possibilities in Scotland.

Diane always claimed that she was born in Delhi - as stated on the note which Evelyn has given us. Have to admit that I am not very well up on search Indian records. :-(

I'm not sure about the surname thing Sue.....it seems that MacLeod is used by Diane all of the time. :-S

There is only 2 births for India including

Name: Cynthia Mary MACLEOD

BirthDate: 17 NovYear: 1900

Location:

St Paul's, Cath., Calcutta

Parents: Norman Augustus, merchant; Hilda Noel Springett

Event

BaptismDate: 05 JanYear: 1901

Location: St Paul's, Cath., Calcutta

Parents: Norman Augustus, merchant; Hilda Noel Springett

Transcribed by: British LibraryIndia Office

Records Reference:
N/1/288 f.28 Source name: Source year: Source edition: Presidency: Bengal




and this one.


Name:

Lindley Stuart MACLEOD

BirthDate: 24 NovYear: 1900

Location: Ch.of Scot., Allahabad


Parents: Lawrence James Mudie, N.W.P, & Oudh Police; Mabel Laura

BaptismDate: 31 DecYear: 1900Location: Ch.of Scot., Allahabad

Parents: Lawrence James Mudie, N.W.P, & Oudh Police; Mabel Laura

Transcribed by: British LibraryIndia Office Records

Reference:
N/1/286 f.143 Source name: Source year: Source edition: Presidency: Bengal

Cynthia - India records:-

When I 'phoned the British Library last year I was told that only a very small percentage of the India Records were available to look at online

The majority of the records can ONLY be searched at the British Library, and even so, 20-30% of the returns are missing.

I posted about this on P82 of this thread because I thought it was worth a search.

0207-412-7873 is the 'phone number of the Asian & Indian Studies Room at the British Library to order a remote search = £36 per name over a period of 5yrs.

At least it may rule out the India Records, if nothing else

I had a quick look at the British Library absolutely ages ago, but didn't find anything. The records are due to come online anyway, so wouldn't really think it would be worth spending the money!

There are only 35 Robert Macleods /Mcleods aged 20 -60 died in Scotland 1905-1929 .( If she was telling the truth at her marriage )

I will be able to check these next wednesday .

Will post after that

Kathy

Maybe he was killed in a car crash in India & his wife & children came back to England.
If he was on duty when he was killed, the Army would pay a pension to the widow &children which could explain Dianes private income.
Any older children could have been sent to boarding school, while Diane, being young, went to relatives in Stornoway.
How´s that for lateral thinking?

Just adding to the mix -


England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966

Name: Robert Macleod
Probate Date: 28 Jan 1918
Death Date: 7 Mar 1917
Death Place: Stornoway, Scotland
Registry: London, England

Robert Macleod of 14 Battery Park, Stornaway
died on 7th March 1917 at Liverpool
Confirmation of Catherine Macleod Mackinnon, widow




probably this one -

Deaths Mar 1917 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

McCleod Robert 58 Liverpool 8b 183

I saw that one too Choccy & wondered about it.
Also wondered about the incoming passenger listing for Mrs Macleod & 4 children, but can´t remember the date of arrival.
In any case, the family wouldn´t necessarily have come back at the same time as Robert because he would presumably have come back with the army & not with the family.
it was quite usual for wives & children to come back seperately in order for the children to be educated in England.
Only question is, why was Robert´s widow´s surname McKinnon. Could she have re married so quickly after his death?.

She might not necessarily be HIS widow - my thinking was she might be his sister (Aunt Kate) - clutching at straws here! It was just the mention of Stornoway that 'grabbed' me.

Good thinking Choccy.
It´s a bit early in the morning for me.

Thank you everyone.

Sorry folks, but the death of Robert Macleod, Battery Park,, Stornoway, was thoroughly discussed, dissected and dismissed at the end of November 2010. Viv had thought it was a possibility too and had sent away for all the details. You can see the main findings on pages c33-35 of this thread. Thanks anyway. :-)

Lateral thinking is always welcome.


Wisechild, you wouldn't like to check through the passenger lists would you, and then put them on to one post so that we can see at a glance? Pretty please.....? Pretty pretty please.... :-D


Hopefully, Evelyn will get hold of her marriage cert this week end, and then that too can have a post of it's own.


:-)

Re an army officer's pension. Having been in HM forces myself I know it's blood out of a stone. e.g. Northern Ireland death in late 70s early 80s, widow told because her husband had an insurance and she would get a basic widow's pension + child benefit and no husband to feed and clothe anymore she was financially better off without him so not entitled to compensation. True story

I decided to do a check, this is what I found, although possible wonder if it stretched to Diane for all those years or would it cease after education or age 21 not at marriage.


HANSARD 1803–2005 ? 1940s ? 1949 ? March 1949 ? 9 March 1949 ? Lords Sitting

INDIAN ARMY PENSIONS

HL Deb 09 March 1949 vol 161 cc256-75 256
§ 4.33 p.m.

§ LORD MIDDLETON rose to draw attention to a letter (A.G. 13119/48/ Funds) from the Controller of Pension Funds to ex-Indian Army officers, regarding proposed reduction in the scale of pensions; and to move for Papers. The noble Lord said: My Lords, in view of the deep anxiety which exists in regard to the imminent reduction of these pensions, I feel that there is no need for me to make any apology for introducing 257 this matter into your Lordships' House. The words of the Motion may be a little misleading, and I would like to make it clear that the pensions involved are not those of former officers of the Indian Army but the pensions of those who may, after this month, become widows or orphans of such officers. The number of potential widows is 1,641, and there may be more if any of the 265 unmarried officers who are subscribers to the pension fund should commit matrimony. There are, so far, 1,225 children concerned. The lowest pension at present given to the widow of an officer of the Indian Army is £54 a year. That will be reduced very shortly to £50 a year and, in due course, to £44 a year. The highest rate of pension at present given is £220 a year, which will now be reduced to £212, and in due course may be reduced to £188 a year. There are three intermediary classes whose pensions will be reduced proportionately, and also the small pensions for children.

§ Before I go into more details, I think it would serve a useful purpose if I were to say something about the history of the pension fund involved, so that there may be a clear picture before your Lordships of the circumstances that have arisen and are plaguing so many. The Honourable East India Company established a widows and orphans pension fund, which was indeed very necessary owing to the heavy officer casualties in war and the high mortality rates in peace time. When the John Company faded out, so did the pension fund, except for existing pensioners, and between 1861 and 1873 the plight of widows and orphans of those who had become King's officers was deplorable. Until quite modern times it was the exception for any officers of the British Army to be without private means, but it was probably far more rare for any officers of the Indian Army to have any private means. So the widows of Indian Army officers were much worse off than the widows of officers of the British Service. What happened was that when an officer fell by the way, his brothers in arms sent the hat round and raised a subscription to enable the widow and children to return to England. When she reached home, she applied for a pension under Royal Warrant. If she failed, she was penniless; if she succeeded she was a 258 little better than penniless. I would remind your Lordships, in passing, that these Royal Warrant pensions have never been a right, but only a privilege.

§ In 1873, the Indian Military Service Family Pension Fund was started. It was financed solely by compulsory contributions from officers of the Indian Army, who paid so much a month according to rank. There were what we would call to-day "special contributions" on marriage, or when infants reported their arrival. That fund was used by the Government of India for financing various projects—for instance, the Kidderpore Docks on the Hooghly—and even to finance Frontier campaigns. The Government of India credited the fund with a rate of interest equal to current rates of interest on long-term Indian sterling securities. That pension fund was never popular, not because of what it did, or did not do, for widows and orphans, but by reason of the way in which it was administered. I think we all had a grievance because we felt that a fund which was built up solely from our pockets ought to be treated as a trust fund, and that we should be represented on a board of trustees. Moreover, it was believed that if the fund had been invested in trustee securities in India, it would have received a higher rate of interest than was in fact accorded to it by the Government of India. I have done my best to investigate the latter claim, but I am bound to admit that the weight of evidence is against it.

§ As the result of representations made, I think, by Colonel Yate, in another place, a Committee was set up in 1909 to investigate the fund. After a five-year period of gestation the Committee gave birth to a most pernicious little mouse—I will endeavour to explain in what way it was pernicious. A line was drawn on the last day of 1914, and after that date no new entrants were allowed into the fund. A new fund was created with a new name, and all officers appointed to the Indian Army on and after January 1, 1915, paid into it. Because of the absence of any new entrants into the old fund, the interest-earning capital became restricted, and the fund reclined on its death bed; it became a dying fund. On the other hand, the new fund flourished, and so far those who contributed to it have had no warning of any reduction in pensions.


*It then relates to WW1 and death in action, different to death in an accident. Only if he was on duty at the time would it be covered.

Also note if he'd died in action it was possible to verify it, an accident miles from where they lived was another matter.

We already have queries about the truth in her tales.

Also wonder if she wanted to hide her birth, because of age, name or was her mother unmarried? A wealthy father may have paid off mother and given Diane an allowance until she married, which gave her a chance of a better education to give her a good start. An Indian birth was exotic and difficult to trace, she could easily be vague as she could say she came back as a baby.

There's possibly still lots of theories about this enigma.

I have searched this site by Michael Quinn Conroy,,,,,,a great site in which Michael has speardsheet in alphabetical groups,,,,names -dates,events.Deaths.Births Baptisms, and places in India.
All events took place in India,

A--C
D--L
M--R
S--Z.

Of course there is nothing at all for Diane-1905/7 I tried a date match for her incase she had been born as Annie Smith,but no match can I find,,,,unless someone would like to recheck it,,,,,dates range from 1700s to 1950s....hes reaaly done a good job and probally is a copy to what the British Library have,

www.tnet.com.au/~quincon/ResBankMaster.htm


Timeline,,,

Born 1905/6 dob as 4th June
.
School leaving would have been about 14/15,,,,WW1.?

did she pass any exams or do something that would be reported that would have been in a local to Stornoway paper,?

was there a children home on the Island?

Does anyone have a sub to britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk? I did a search for Robert Macleod and there looks to be a couple of articles around 1917 for a Robert Macleod with links to music. Is this how the family know the Goddard-Fenwicks???

I think we have only been linking Diane to EGF, but does the link go back further?