Find Ancestors

Thank you Ann and Choccy.........really grateful for your help.......that just leave the two men now..........sigh..... This family is both fascinating and frustrating.



Kathy - another brick wall then? Never mind.......but so many thanks for looking and keeping an eye on things from up them.


So, where was this car crash then? England? India?


I can feel a headache coming on....... :-)

The nurse link again cropping up on Emily Goddard Fenwick's 1911 census, a visitor who is a nurse. Has anyone came across a Katherine McLeod who worked at Grove Hospital and shows up from around 1921 to 1929 on the Electoral Rolls for Wandsworth, and from what I can make out the hospital was near another hospital called the Fountain Mental Hospital, I wonder if she links to the Patrick MacFarlane McLeod family I've been looking at, although still not found anything more out than what's been posted previously by Jooles.

Headaches all round I think Cynthia :-D

1911 ?any good do you think for Katherine Mcleod

Name:
Katherine McLeod Age in 1911:27
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1884
Relation to Head:Servant
Gender:Female
Birth Place:Renfrew, Scotland
Civil parish:Hampstead
County/Island:London
Country:England
Herbert William Piper 64
Anna Lucy Piper 57
Gladys Maria Piper 28
Katherine McLeod 27
Mary McLeod 23 born abt 1888 Birth Place: Lew (image says Lewis Stornoway ) . Servant

Thanks jansmith, I'll have a look at that one.

Have made a start looking at the Army List for Robert MacLeod (Army List is a list of all serving officers, with rank and regiment, sometimes produced quarterly). Have just looked at Dec 1905, Jan 1906, Apr 1906, Jul 1906 and Oct 1906, when we might have expected him to be in the Army. No R Macleod in Seaforth Highlanders, although there are R Macleod's in other regiments.

Thank you Ann......... :-)


I am waiting for Renes to come back with her Springfield Hospital collation but, meanwhile, I had a thought.

Working backwards.......we have Diane from her death back to working at Springfield. She must have lived somewhere whilst working at the hospital, so I undertook a search of electoral rolls in that area.

Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. More brick walls.

It's absolutely uncanny.....it's as though she appears from out of space to the Registry Office for her wedding.......sheeeeeeeesh.

:-(

for Traciey -


London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965

Name: Katherine McLeod
Year: 1926
County or Borough: Wandsworth
Ward or Division/Constituency: Wandsworth

residence - Grove Hospital, Tooting Grove
================================


she's one of many


and still there in 1927


London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965

Name: Katherine McLeod
Year: 1927
County or Borough: Wandsworth
Ward or Division/Constituency: Wandsworth


and still there in 1928 and 1929

(can't see her in 1930)

Perhaps this is why she is not on the earlier
Electoral Rolls
"...... Representation of the People act in 1928 corrected this and from that time all females over the age of 21 were granted voting rights." and therefore name could be on the electoral register and on marriage cert she was only 23 in 1929

Okay I am on the final run of the Springfield precis

but have scribbled notes on a couple of items .... that do not seem to have been answered/checked ---- so just posting

----on page c 24 --- 19/12/2009 EDIT ....

there is a mention of Eileen I McLeod Born 1906 -- a Nurse
coming back to UK from Canada ... 1929

AND
on FBG Page 43 ---- 9. 1. 2010 there is talk of ROYS in Canada

AND
of course Evelyn GF --- godmother ..
EDIT ................. see page 60
She visited Canada, returning Quebec-Plymouth 24.9.1927. ( JANSMITH
42 Loulser(?spelling hard to read) London SW 17 thought to be 8 BY CHRIS HO ) but think it should be Foulser, next road to Dafforne!


is there a connection .........................

Did our Evelyn ever know how/where her parents met

.EDIT .... NO CONNECION

Name: Eileen I McLeod
Gender: Female
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1905
Birth Country: New Zealand
Date of Arrival: 28 Mar 1931. >>>>>>>
Vessel: Duchess of Atholl
Search Ship Database: View the 'Duchess of Atholl' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: St John, New Brunswick
Port of Departure: Greenock, Scotland
Roll: T-14857

Thank you Renes. :-)


As I am not the world's best at census searching, is there anyone else who can find Eileen I. MacLeod please.....pretty please.... :-D


A Canadian connection has been wondered about Renes.....over the last few days, whilst putting the Goddard-Fenwick together, I have been trying to group them so see where they were in 1911, just in case they had a stray youngster with them. With help from our lovely people on here, I have them all except for the two brothers.

William Henry Willoughby G-F and George Digby G-F.


William was definitely in Canada at that time but, for the life of me, I simply cannot spot him on their 1911.

I think George may have been there too but is also invisible - well, to me at least. :-(



Evelyn told me, not long ago, that she thinks her parents may have met at a dance but really doesn't know - so anything is possible.

SPRINGFIELD HOSPITAL

The only established fact is that Diane Leslie MacCleod was working at Springfield Mental Hospital from 7/6/1927 and 19/6/1928 (see Evelyn Page 32 18 Nov 2010 )

EDIT -- As ca be seen her file was never received from Springfield ...... Evelyn gave letter of permission----- .

My SIL is a very senior nurse for some 25 years .many years at RCN teaching .. I have asked her if the RCN can help

First mention from Evelyn Page 21 17/12 2009
I cannot find any trace of her prior to 1929 when she married my father Herbert Roy in Wandsworth London. How she came to be in London I dont know, I believe at some stage she worked at Springfield mental hospital.

Evelyn Page 22 17 Dec 2009 20:18
I dont think she was a trained nurse, she sometimes talked of taking Patients out and how embarassing it was sometimes

FBG Page 22 18 Dec 2009 22:06
And Springfield hospital where Diane worked before marriage was/is in Wandsworth?

Evelyn Page 32 18 Nov 2010 14:3 -
Diane has been traced as working at Springfield Mental Hospital from 7/6/1927 and 19/6/1928

FBG Page 32 18 Nov 2010
The hospital is Wandsworth/Tooting way if you Google you will find it.
A GR member very kindly searched LMA for it for Evelyn when I asked for help as I live too far away to do it myself.
The info that Diane was believed to have worked there was given on here long ago by Evelyn but it has taken me all this time to find someone willing to do the search for us.
The GR member is good at research so I know what she tells us to be correct.


FBG Page 32 18 Nov 2010
Ann,this is the PM I received and passed on to Evelyn.

Diane Leslie Macleod started work at Springfield
7.6.1927, left 19.6.1928.

Only had clerks minute books..
I will be going again maybe next week. So will see what else they may have.
Girl did look and couldnt see anymore that would help. But worth another try.
Sorry its not much. But at least you now know she was there and was a nurse.
***************************************
Not sure if she was a registered nurse,but certainly the first thing found for absolute certain on her before her marriage..!
So big thanks go to that kind GR member...


WPANAL --- Annie --Page 32 18 Nov 2010 17:40
There are these records at the National Archives - might be worth a look.

DT 10 contains the bound volumes of the Register of Nurses (SRNs) 1921-1973. Although the Register was opened in 1921 it includes details of nurses who had qualified previous to this. Printed nominal indexes are held under references DT 10/1-56 . DT 10 also contains the list of nurses which was opened under the 1943 Nurses Act to allow those who had failed to register under the provisions of the 1919 Act to do so (DT 10/201 ). The Roll of Nurses (SENs) which was opened in 1944 is held in DT 11 . Both male and female assistant nurses, as they were called then, are included on the same Roll, but assistant nurses who worked in mental hospitals were not deemed to be eligible for inclusion. The change in the name to State Enrolled Nurse took place in 1961. In 1962 the Roll of Mental Nurses was established. The covering dates for DT 11 are 1944 to 1973 and printed nominal indexes are also included (DT 11/1-9 ).

Both the Register and the Roll contain information of use to the family historian and both are open without restriction. The type of information given includes: full name, qualifications, where the individual trained, and home address. Any alterations to this information may also be recorded, such as change of name upon marriage, change of address, date of death and any removals from the Register of Roll on disciplinary or other grounds.

Joy KM . Page 33 .20 Nov 2010 22:55.... sends Photo of GGF working at Springfield Mental Hospital - known years ago as the asylum

FBG Page 33 20 Nov 2010 23:27
Just received this message back from the kind GR member about going to NA to look up possible Nurse records for Diane.
Subject: RE: Diane Leslie Macleod

Jansmith Page 33 20 Nov 2010 23:27 -------- it appears that this relates to inmates and staff ---- address for contact also given --- FBG Contacts
elating to the hospital records, might be worth getting in touch with them?
Mental Hospital Records and the Freedom Of Information Act (2000) and Data Protection Act (1998) --- see post for rest of info

FBG Page 34 23 Nov 2010 15:55
They do not have the records of those years only much earlier ones from when it first opened,BUT, the woman I spoke to(very nice and helpful)said that on her records there it says that if the detailed records of the nurses are not at LMA then they are still with the Hospital.
I have an address to write to and will look for a phone number tomorrow to try to phone first and see where and what that gets me to.

FBG Page 34 25 Nov 2010 14:49
Springfield Hospital have been phoned again today as the blokie was out yesterday that I needed to speak to apparently.
They are going to have a search to see if they can find any records of Diane as per my conversation from Surrey History Society that they are most likely, if anywhere, still in the hospital..
But as he is a "very busy"person as he put it,it may take some time.
At least we are getting in lots of practise of patience !

FBG Page 35 27 Nov 2010 18:34
Part post From Annie ----
Had some spare time today so I searched the first 10 books(!) of the index to nurses. Time consuming as each book has to be ordered although they don't take that long to search. Anyway I searched 1921 (bit early I know but thought I might as well start at the beginning!) to 1930 and she wasn't found. The books give name, home address and where and when qualified.
There was one MacLeod whose address was in Stornaway. Jessie Ann, who qualified 1924-5 at Plaistow Hospital. Address was 30 Francis St, Stornaway.
There are probably 30-40 more books to search. The Catalogue index isn't very clearly worded so it's not possible to tell how they all differe and some seem to cover the same sort of dates.
was plain ann now annielaurie
*******************************************************************
We are going to wait and see what Springfield Hospital come back with before Ann maybe makes her way through those other 30-40 books on this mission.

FBG Page 36 2 Dec 2010 13:52
Phone call from Springfield Hospital this morning.
Staff records held there stop at 1942 apparently,and what they do have only have the dates when they worked there and a name...
They suggest trying
NMC...Nurses and Midwifery Council and RCM .....Royal College of Nursing . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOT SURE IF THIS WAS EVER DONE >>>>>>>>>>>>

FBG page 49 14 AUG 2011
Now phone calls I can and have done LOTS of and did manage to get the fact that she worked at Springfield Hospital but alas no record other than her name as a member of staff and the dates she worked there,

SPRINGFIELD continues and EDITED

JANSMITH PAGE 56 24 SEPT 2011
Has this area been checked for any nursing info
NOT SEEN THAT THIS HAS BEEN DONE >>>>> NOTE NI NOS NOT ISSUED UNTIL 1948<<

Would Springfield hosp still have it on file I wonder?
Although they did tell me all they had on her was her name and the dates she worked there..
But I have not actually seen her file..They wouldnt let me..But I can try again now with the letter I have from Evelyn giving me permission to access anything to do with her mother...Now where have I put that. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< WAS THE FILE EVER RECEIVED

WISECHILD PAGE 61 3 Oct 2011
I wondered whether she was a nurse with either the Red Cross or St John Ambulance as you seem to think she wasn´t a qualified nurse.I think they were used as assistants in hospitals before the advent of the NHS (as, of course, were nuns.)

JANSMITH PAGE 62 3 OCT 2011 AND 4TH OCT 2011 ---------
ASKS SHOULD WE POST THAT ANY ONE VISITING ... PLEASE REFER TO THIS THREAD
Has anyone actually been able to go to
London Metropolitan Archives: City of London and look at all the hospital records? -----
LATER DISCOUNTED AS ASSUME FBG HAS FILE FROM SPRINGFIELD

ALSO PAGE 65 -- JAN ASKS AGAIN ABOUT LMA VISIT

FBG PAGE 65 9 OCT 2011
I can try to get the actual file if you like(when I find Evs letter of permission)But they were insistent that that was all it said.....And trust me they would have told me ALL that was on it after the sob story they got from me plus the constant phone calls..:)
Someone did spend some time at Kew (sorry,cant remember who)going through SRN records and other stuff but there are LOADS of books it would seem and they ran out of steam... <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ANNIE LOOKED AT KEW

But it is most likely that she was just a carer or Auxillary nurse I would think...

JANSMITH PAGE 65 10 OCT 2011
Cynthia, i see FBG has asked at the hospital and someone has checked nurses records at Kew but i just wonder if there is anything different in records at London Met .Archives? will have a look again at info on the Met. site ------- DECIDED TO EMAIL

JANSMITH PAGE 70 22 OCT 2011
reply from LMA!
Thank you for your email of 11/10/2011.
Within the Springfield collection, few staff records survive and none
appear to cover the period 1927-28. You can search the catalogue online
to see the range of material (ref H46) by using the following link:

http://search.lma.gov.uk/OPAC_LMA/login.html


CYNTHIA PAGE 71 23 OCT 2011

Out of interest (and despair), I have been googling Springfield Hospital as that is the first time we actually 'catch sight' of Diane.
This is an interesting site with pictures of the now derelict building where, presumably, Diane worked.
http://www.derelictplaces.co.uk/main/showthread.php?t=13716

Spotted this too......could be that Diane lived on site......may have a word with my nice friendly archivist in Wandsworth to see if she can spot her there.........may get some more names to check through....
In 1930 a Nurses' Home was officially opened by Princess Mary, Countess of Harewood. It provided accommodation for 140 nurses, who had previously lived in side rooms and in the towers of the main building.

CYNTHIA PAGE 71 25 OCT 2011
My very helpful archivist at Wandsworth has told me that she has looked at the Electoral Roll for Springfield Hospital -from 1927-1932 but no sign of Diane living there. In that case, Diane must have been renting a room or boarding somewhere. Short of going through the whole of Wandsworth, it's another brick wall. How many brickwalls have we hit so far

JANSMITH PAGE 92 7 DEC 2012
Has anyone been able to look through these at Kew?
What records can I find at The National Archives at Kew?
Records of the General Nursing Council for England and Wales (c1860-1984) For rolls and registers of nurses maintained by the General Nursing Council consult:
the printed nominal indexes in DT 10/1-56 to locate records in DT 10 (1921-1973)
the printed nominal indexes in DT 11/1-9 to locate records in DT 11 (1944-1973)
DT 12 (1973-1983) - the records in DT 12/24-26 are not on a readable format
Although the Register in DT 10 was opened in 1921 it includes details of nurses who had qualified previous to this.

Also this site
http://www.rcn.org.uk/development/rcn_archives/research_advice_-_tracing_nurses

ANNIE -- RESPONDS - NEXT POST
I started to look at the Nursing records at Kew but it's a major exercise and I haven't got the time.
CYNTHIA RESPONDS NEXT POST
Hi.......didn't we discover at some point, that there was no information on DLM from those records. Have a feeling that Fans checked by phone. I'll give her a shout and see if she can remember.
FOLLOWED BY WISECHILD -----Pretty sure you are right Cynthia. Also, there is nothing to suggest that Diane was a trained nurse. She could just have been an auxilliary.
AND FINALLY CYNTHIA -----Yes, she did all the checking about Diane's time at the Springfield and there was nothing apart from the barest details - name etc.


PATINCYPRUS PAGE 104 4 May 2013
What job did Diane do at the hospital?
If she was a state registered nurse - she had her name on a register, was this kept?
Was she a secretary - training at a college?
Was she an unpaid charity worker? Many upper and middle class young women of that era did charity work. Many of the inmates could have been soldiers of WW1 mentally damaged by the war. Many saw it as their duty to help as so many families were left with casualties.


TRACIE PAGE 105 8 MAY 2013
The nurse link again cropping up on Emily Goddard Fenwick's 1911 census, a visitor who is a nurse.
Has anyone came across a Katherine McLeod who worked at Grove Hospital and shows up from around 1921 to 1929 on the Electoral Rolls for Wandsworth, and from what I can make out the hospital was near another hospital called the Fountain Mental Hospital,
I wonder if she links to the Patrick MacFarlane McLeod family I've been looking at, although still not found anything more out than what's been posted previously by Jooles.

Renes......thank you very much - it brings things together nicely and shows how much work has been done.

Because the first sighting we have of Diane is at Springfield, I put out a plea on another site. Someone has replied that they have a friend who works at the hospital who may be able to gain access to the records. I doubt if they will come up with anything new - but one lives in hope... :-)

Thanks everyone.....signing off again......... :-)

I've just had a message from Evelyn. She is still watching this thread with great interest and would like to thank everyone for their hardwork and efforts on her behalf. She is very, very, appreciative. <3

Thinking of Diane's age on marriage cert and no occupation I wonder if she was old enough to have completed a nurses course to be registered ?

Hope this is a help- found after I typed in nursing training in stornoway


Highlands and Western Isles » Western Isles campusWestern Isles Campus
The University is responsible for the teaching of nurses and midwives in the Forth Valley, Highlands and Western Isles. As well as in Stirling, there are additional University campuses in both Inverness and Stornoway on the Isle of Lewis (the Western Isles Campus).

The Western Isles Campus of the School of Nursing, Midwifery and Health, University of Stirling provides undergraduate degree programmes for adult nursing. The 3 year nursing programme provides opportunities for students to obtain a BSc in Nursing and achieve registration with the Nursing and Midwifery Council. Nurses who are previously registered with the NMC can also access a two year programme to obtain Adult registration. The campus also supports post graduate students who can choose from CPD courses, Masters programmes, Clinical Doctorate and PhD study.

After leaving school 15 years earlier, starting nurse training was to say the least, daunting. That soon changed when I realised the support that was available. The campus staff are quick to support and guide you all the way through and there’s always someone on hand to help out. You’ll also make friends for life and have a great laugh along the way!

Norma Macleod, Adult branch student

Not sure how long this has been in Stornaway - it is part of the University of Stirling

All the best Evelyn from another 'senior citizen' not yet very good and knowing how to paste things here.

EDUCATION. GOVERNESS Daily). wishes Employment, in or wear Aberdeen; usual subjects. Apply Press and Journal Registry. STAMMERING CURED.—Miss EVELYN MACLEODEVELYN MACLEOD will Re-Visit Aberdeen for May and June. Particulars Highview, Dalmeny Road, Carshalton, Surrey. would (five Private Tuition, Bursary Corn p. or similar Exams. No. 269 Press and Journal. SITUATIONS VACANT. Only Copies of Testimonials, not, train Nurse-Housemaid. 260 Press and Journal "TTTAiNTF.D, early in June, Single-handed VV and Housemaid; mist have good references. Mrs Wilaon-Fairquharsion, Strathdon. "t~*7\ANTED, Thoroughly-Experienced Head Typist V V for Legal Office in Aberdeen.Aberdeen JournalGrampian, Scotland24/04/1923.


?.

Good evening all.......

Jan, I had wondered about the non-occupation bit myself but not a clue about training. I think it's been mentioned that maybe she was an auxiliary or even a volunteer..... :-S


Hello Autumnleaves and welcome. Thank you for that, and you're doing just fine with your pasting....... :-D


Kay, where did you get that from please?

Haven't had time to do much with this today but we tick on........

Hi Cyn

B Newspapers FMP ,with just two details......

a surname -----Macleod,,

key word------nursing exam,,
----------------------------------------------------

just incase there was ever a national carrying exam passes for Diane,,,,but it threw up Evelyn,,,,,

then left it to search anything out,,,,,,,I cant see it in full though,
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ive done a few searches entering surname and just a keyword.but cant see the full details as dont have FMP.....

;-) :-D

FMP British Newspapers



Aberdeen Press & Journal, Tuesday, 24th April 1923

under the heading 'EDUCATION'

'STAMMERING CURED
Miss Evelyn Macleod will re-visit Aberdeen for May and June. Particulars - Highview, Dalmeny Road, Carshalton, Surrey'