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John
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7 Mar 2010 20:59 |
Hi, I'm trying to trace the family of Joseph Aspey born in Orrell near Wigan in 1842. From Joseph's marriage certificate his father was a William Aspey a collier and a quick search on familysearch.org gave me his mother's name as Elizabeth. I found a marriage record for William and Elizabeth on lan-opc i.e:
Marriage: 3 Jan 1842 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England William Aspby - (X), 26 Collier Bachelor of Orrell Elizabeth Gore - (X), 23 Spinster of Orrell Groom's Father: Joseph Aspby, Collier Bride's Father: Robert Gore, Collier Witness: Alexander Jardan; Sarah Aspby, (X) Married by Banns by: Henry B.Jones Register: Marriages 1840 - 1842, Page 202, Entry 404 Source: LDS Film 1885694
So William (Aspby not Aspey) and Elizabeth married on 03/01/1842 in Wigan. Afterwards I sent off for Joseph's birth Cert and it basically read Joseph Aspey born 06/01/1842 in Orrell, parents William Aspey and Elizabeth Goone(?). However back to the Marriage of William if you notice one of the witnesses is a Sarah Aspby, and a Sarah Aspey was born in Orrell in 1817 daughter of Joseph Aspey, a collier and Mary. I'm assuming that William and Sarah were siblings. However I tried to trace the family in the 1851 census and found Joseph aged 9 living with Sarah, who's listed as his Mother and Mary Aspey born c1794 in Newcastle-upon-Tyne. In addition to all of this, Elizabeth Gore is completely missing from all records as is Robert Gore.
I'm sorry it's such a long post, but I can't quite get my head round it all.
Thank you very much in advance,
John
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AnnCardiff
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7 Mar 2010 21:12 |
1881 John BARTLEY Head M Male 29 Wales Coal Miner Ellen BARTLEY Wife M Female 20 Wales Robert BARTLEY Son U Male 10 m Tyldesley, Lancashire, England Joseph ASPY Lodger W Male 36 Orrell, Lancashire, England Coal Miner Stephen DUCKAR Lodger U Male 32 Wales Coal Miner
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling 1 Green Bank St Census Place Tyldesley Cum Shakerley, Lancashire, England Family History Library Film 1341911 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 3811 / 79 Page Number 11
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AnnCardiff
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7 Mar 2010 21:13 |
1881 Joseph ASPEY Head W Male 62 Orrell, Lancashire, England Coal Miner Unempl. John ASPEY Son U Male 21 Ince, Lancashire, England Coal Miner Henry ASPEY Son U Male 17 Ince, Lancashire, England Coal Miner Margaret ASPEY Daur U Female 13 Ince, Lancashire, England Scavinger In Cotton Mill
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling 14 Smithy Green Off Ince Green Lane Census Place Ince In Makerfield, Lancashire, England Family History Library Film 1341903 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 3776 / 68 Page Number 30
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AnnCardiff
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7 Mar 2010 21:16 |
William Aspey Compact Disc #130 Pin #3390384 Pedigree Sex: M
Event(s) Birth: abt 1824 Orrell, Wigan, Lancashire, England Death: abt 1843 Parents Father: Peter Aspey Disc #130 Pin #3389762 Mother: Mary Miller Disc #130 Pin #3389763
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AnnCardiff
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7 Mar 2010 21:18 |
1881
Robert ASPEY Head M Male 27 Shevington, Lancashire, England Coal Miner Elizabeth ASPEY Wife M Female 24 Orrell, Lancashire, England Peter ASPEY Son Male 4 Orrell, Lancashire, England Thomas ASPEY Son Male 2 Orrell, Lancashire, England William FISHWICK Boarder U Male 22 Orrell, Lancashire, England Coal Miner
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling Kit Green Census Place Orrell, Lancashire, England Family History Library Film 1341904 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 3781 / 70 Page Number 26
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AnnCardiff
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7 Mar 2010 21:21 |
1881
Mary ASPEY Head W Female 86 Newcastle On Tyne, Northumberland, England Alms Woman Sarah ASPEY Daur U Female 61 Orrel, Lancashire, England Alms Woman
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling Warrington Rd Census Place Whiston, Lancashire, England Family History Library Film 1341892 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 3728 / 73 Page Number 36
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EVEIE
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7 Mar 2010 21:24 |
William Aspey Birth 1815 Death Parents & Siblings Joseph Aspey (1785-) No Mother Spouse & Children Elizabeth Gore (1818-) Joseph Aspey (1842-1876) .Timeline1815 Birth 1842 3 JanAge: 27 Marriage to Elizabeth Gore All Saints Wigan, Lancs ..Family Members Parents Joseph Aspey – No Mother Show siblings Hide siblings Spouse & Children Elizabeth Gore 1818 – Joseph Aspey 1842 – 1876
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John
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7 Mar 2010 21:34 |
Thanks for all your replies!! I wasn't expecting so many so soon. I should point out that I think that Joseph Aspey jr may and only may have been dead by 1881if this is his family:
Household:
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability Margaret ASKEY Head W Female 34 Pemberton, Lancashire, England Mary ASKEY Daur U Female 17 Pemberton, Lancashire, England Mule Spinner (Cotton Mill) Ellen ASKEY Daur Female 14 Pemberton, Lancashire, England Mule Spinner (Cotton Mill) Elizabeth ASKEY Daur Female 12 Pemberton, Lancashire, England Mule Spinner (Cotton Mill) Sarah ASKEY Daur Female 9 Pemberton, Lancashire, England Scholar William ASKEY Son Male 7 Pemberton, Lancashire, England Scholar Jane ASKEY Daur Female 6 Pemberton, Lancashire, England Scholar Joseph ASKEY Son Male 4 Pemberton, Lancashire, England
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling 64 Marsh Green Census Place Pemberton, Lancashire, England Family History Library Film 1341904 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 3780 / 116 Page Number 25 All the names are right, But it's Askey and not Aspey
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John
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8 Mar 2010 00:15 |
Hi Ann + Starr,
Thank you for all your help! I'd love to know which website you got that info from Starr, really very intresting!! I know there's a fairly large Aspey family in the Wigan/Standish/Orrell area which I can't tag my Aspeys on to. If I can just say Ann I've never seen a Robert Aspey before and it's very interesting indeed, there was a James Aspey born Shevington around 1843-1846, parents William and Elizabeth so maybe... I can't thank you enough
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Jooleh
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8 Mar 2010 01:02 |
Elizabeth Gore in 1841?
Father Robert is a Coal Miner
Name: Betty Gore Age: 20 Estimated birth year: abt 1821 Gender: Female Where born: Lancashire, England Civil parish: Standish Hundred: Leyland County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation: View image Registration district: Wigan Sub-registration district: Standish Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Robert Gore 50 Ann Gore 50 Betty Gore 20 William Gore 15 John Gore 13 Robert Gore 8 James Gore 4 EDIT I see what you mean about no other records. Nothing for them on Lancs opc. I searched on one of the other children and came up with this curious record:
Marriage: 31 May 1858 St John the Divine, Pemberton, Lancashire, England James Gore - (X), 22 Collier Bachelor of Kitt Green, Orrell Elizabeth Bankes - (X), 18 Check weaver Spinster of Kitt Green, Orrell Groom's Father: Robert Parkinson, Collier Bride's Father: James Hargreaves, Laborer at Colliery Witness: William Fishwick, (X); Elizabeth Fishwick, (X) Married by Banns by: T.L.J. Warneford, Curate Register: Marriages 1837 - 1859, Page 235, Entry 470 Source: LDS Film 1885637
Why would his father be called Parkinson?
Oh and a William Fishwick (witness) appears with the Aspey's in Kitt Green 1881 as posted by AoGG
Something for the night workers to chew on!
Julie
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John
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8 Mar 2010 11:14 |
Hi Julie, I haven't a clue why Robert's father is listed as Parkinson, very strange... Thanks for sending the census record, that looks like the right family. I've just done a search in Ancestry and in the 1851 census they're listed as Goor, somewhere in Lancashire...
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EVEIE
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8 Mar 2010 16:05 |
john my info is from a tree on ancestry but ive just been checking my dads brother married a emily asprey from liverpool her fathere was a george and we have a julian asprey but mightnot be same there is a few aspreys on facebook have a look in there i found relatives i didnt know about jean
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Jooleh
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8 Mar 2010 20:49 |
Hi John
Had a look at the 1851 census for Joseph Aspey. It doesn't actually say that Sarah is his mother. It says Mary Aspey is the Head, Sarah is her unmarried daughter and Joseph is her grandson. So Sarah could well be William's sister/Joseph's aunt. His parents William and Elizabeth presumably elsewhere.
Also, for Mary's place of birth it just says 'British Subject'. Can't see where Newcastle on Tyne comes into it.
EDIT The transcriber has given Sarah the relationship of 'mother' but that isn't what is on the image-it's a question of interpretation.
Julie
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Jooleh
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8 Mar 2010 22:59 |
Mary and Sarah in 1841?
Ages were rounded so won't correspond to their birth year.
No sign of Joseph senior and as it doesn't give married status we don't know if Mary is a widow or not.
Name: Sarah Aspey Age: 20 Estimated birth year: abt 1821 Gender: Female Where born: Lancashire, England Civil parish: Wigan Hundred: West Derby County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation: View image Registration district: Wigan Sub-registration district: Pemberton Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Mary Aspey 45 Sarah Aspey 20 Address: Latham Lane Pemberton
Can't find William 1841 Cant find William & Elizabeth 1851 Can't find any of them 1861!
Julie
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John
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9 Mar 2010 11:47 |
Hi Jean + Julie,
I know what you mean about Facebook Jean, I've found 3 or 4 on there myself! I'm not an expert by any means on surnames but I'd think that Aspey and Asprey are different spellings of the same name.
Thanks for those census records Julie they've helped loads, at least it clears up Sarah's relationship. I've tried myself to find William and Elizabeth with no success at all. I did have though William as being killed in a pit accident in 1861 at one time but it seems it was another William. I'm beginning to think that William and possibly Elizabeth both died soon after marrying but it's just a thought.
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Jooleh
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9 Mar 2010 20:23 |
Hi John
Can you post all the info from Joseph jnr's marriage certificate. Who did he marry, where & when? Who were the witnesses,brides father, was William noted as deceased etc?
Do you have Joseph jnr in 1871?
Do you know names of children?
Any further facts you can give might help in the search for his family.
Julie
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John
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10 Mar 2010 08:18 |
Hi Julie,
I do have Joseph jnr's marriage certificate and this is what it says:
Joseph Aspey married Margaret Ascroft 31/5/1863 in St. Wilfred's in Standish, the parents were William Aspey and John Ascroft and the witnesses were Richard Barker (Margaret's brother-in-law) and Edward Bailey. Neither parent are listed as dead. Joseph's children were Mary b1864, Ellen b1866, Elizabeth b1869, Sarah b1871, William b1874, Jane b1875, Joseph b1876. I've found in the last half hour that my Joseph was the Joseph Aspey killed in a pit accident in 1876.
Best wishes
John.
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Jooleh
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10 Mar 2010 22:47 |
Hi john
As we can't find William & Elizabeth in 1851 or 1861 here's a possible scenario based on the premise that James Aspey born Shevington 1844 is their child:
. . 1851 England Census about James Aspull Name: James Aspull Age: 7 Estimated birth year: abt 1844 Relation: Stepson Mother's Name: Elizabeth Gender: Male Where born: Shevington, Lancashire, England Civil parish: Shevington County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability: View image Registration district: Wigan Sub-registration district: Standish ED, institution, or vessel: 3b Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 24 Household Members: Name Age Peter Feimer 32 Elizabeth Feimer 32 John Feimer 4 Robert Turner 2 Thomas Turner 8 Mo James Aspull 7
The image says Turner for the parents and it does say Aspull for James but that could be a mistake by the enumerator because here they are again in 1861
1861 England Census about James Aspey Name: James Aspey Age: 17 Estimated birth year: abt 1844 Relation: Stepson Mother's Name: Elizabeth Gender: Male Where born: Shevington, Lancashire, England Civil parish: Shevington County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Wigan Sub-registration district: Standish ED, institution, or vessel: 6 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 62 Household Members: Name Age Peter Turner 42 Elizabeth Turner 42 James Aspey 17 John Turner 15 Robert Turner 12 Ann Turner 8 Peter Turner 5 Elizabeth Turner 3
Will post more in a mo
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Jooleh
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10 Mar 2010 23:05 |
So did William die/perhaps they were estranged?
Couldn't find a marriage for Turner/Aspey but there is this:
Marriages Sep 1845 (>99%)
Beswick Henry Bolton 21 83 Crook Richard Bolton 21 83 >>Gore Elizabeth Bolton 21 83 LAWTON Ann Bolton 21 83 MCOWEN James Bolton 21 83 PARKER Margaret Bolton 21 83 TAYLOR Martha Bolton 21 83 >>Turner Peter Bolton 21 83
Then looked for poss death of William in 1844/45. Free BMD has two in 1845 but one is in Leeds and neither give age.
Lancashire BMD has this one:
Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1845 Surname Forename(s) Age Sub-District Registers At Reference ASPEY William 31 Adlington Preston ADL/1/88
I'm assuming that's the Chorley one on Free BMD? The age is near enough.
SO! There's a possibility or it may be a complete red herring......and it doesn't help in finding Joseph jnr in 1861.....
How did you find out it was your Joseph that died in the pit accident?
Julie
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Jooleh
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10 Mar 2010 23:19 |
Btw I think the Askeys you have in 1881 are right. The image could easily be a P or a K.
Here they are in 1871:
1871 England Census about Joseph Aspy Name: Joseph Aspy Age: 29 Estimated birth year: abt 1842 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Margaret Gender: Male Where born: Sherington, Lancashire, England Civil parish: Pemberton Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrews Town: Marsh Green County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Registration district: Wigan Sub-registration district: Pemberton ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Household schedule number: 182 Household Members: Name Age Joseph Aspy 29 Margaret Aspy 27 Mary Aspy 7 Ellen Aspy 4 Elizabeth Aspy 2 Julie
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