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Aw bad luck...............I'm waiting for some police records to come & can't wait to check the post every day - usually when I get home from work 'cos our postie isn't early!

Got a reply this morning, I have to re-apply for some reason. BAH!

Hi Julie, I haven't been on this site a lot over the past week myself to tell the truth. I ordered the removal record this morning (I was waiting for my wages) so hopefully it should arrive Monday/Tuesday...

Best wishes,

John.

Hi

Re Peter & Mary Ann

These are my Aspey relatives.

Thomas was my Gt Grandfather.

I think that you will find that most of the Aspey/Aspy families on this site are interrelated. Peter, Thomas, James and Joseph being common names.

Email me through the board and I will allow you access to my tree.

Hi John
Haven't been around much & haven't found anything else of use to you. Did you apply for the records of removal?
Shout if you want help in locating anything else specific.
Best wishes
Julie

Hi Julie,

I'd forgot about the Peter Aspey living next door to the Turner family. Not sure if it's relevant but this is what I found:

Baptisms: 5 Dec 1802 St Thomas the Martyr, Up Holland, Lancashire, England
Peter Aspey - Son of Peter Aspey
Abode: Orrell
Occupation: Collier
Register: Baptisms 1789 - 1812, Page 40, Entry 22
Source: LDS Film 1657546

He had a few siblings i.e: Betty, William, William, Ann, Richard, Margaret and Joseph.

This is his parents marriage:

Marriage: 21 Jul 1788 St Wilfrid, Farnworth near Prescot, Lancashire, England
Peter Aspey - (X), Collier of Farnworth near Prescot
Margaret Glover - (X), Spinster of Farnworth near Prescot
Witness: Henry Kidd; Peter Shaw
Married by Banns by: Thomas Moss Minister
Register: Marriages 1781 - 1812, Page 49
Source: LDS Film 166235 item 4

And this is Peter Aspey snr.

Burial: 6 Feb 1848 St Thomas the Martyr, Upholland, Lancashire, England
Peter Aspy -
Age: 84
Abode: UpHolland
Register: St Thomas the Martyr, Page 34, Entry 271
Source: LDS Film 1657555

The marriage record puts the Aspey in the Prescot area though the only records I could find about the Aspeys from 1750-1780 in the area are these:

Marriage: 5 Dec 1759 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Joseph Aspey - of Prescot
Sarah Seddon - (X), of Prescot
Witness: Henry Barnes?; William Aspey?
Banns Read: 18 Nov 1759, 2nd: 25 Nov 1759, 3rd: 2 Dec 1759
Married by Banns by: A Ashcroft - curate
Register: Marriages by Banns 1754 - 1788, Page 47, Entry 188
Source: LDS Film 1657584 item 8

Baptisms: 20 Sep 1767 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Mary Aspey - Daughter of Joseph Aspey & Sarah
Born: 24 Aug 1767
Abode: Prescot
Occupation: Shoemaker
Register: Baptisms 1766 - 1809, Page 7, Entry 6
Source: LDS Film 1657583 item 8

Baptisms: 9 May 1773 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Thomas Aspey - Son of Joseph Aspey & Sarah
Born: 27 Mar 1773
Abode: Prescot
Occupation: Shoemaker
Register: Baptisms 1766 - 1809, Page 28, Entry 3
Source: LDS Film 1657583 item 8

Baptisms: 22 Mar 1776 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Aspey - Daughter of Joseph Aspey & Sarah
Born: 2 Mar 1776
Abode: Prescot
Occupation: Shoemaker
Register: Baptisms 1766 - 1809, Page 38, Entry 36
Source: LDS Film 1657583 item 8


I know it could be a completely different family but this could account for Joseph and his family being moved to Whiston.

Thanks again Julie

Best wishes

John

Hi John

19th century ASBO ha ha I like that.
It was because of the Poor Law. Presumably Whiston was Joseph's last place of residence & when the family applied for poor relief in Orell there was an order of removal because they hadn't gained Settlement rights in Orell. If you google 'Poor Law Order of Removal' all will be explained.

Julie

Hi Julie,

That order of removal is definately Joseph and his family! What does an order of removal mean though, is it some kind of ASBO of the 19th century? That's a brilliant record and I'll certainly be e-mailling the Lancashire Records Office as soon as I can.
I've had a look the James Aspey who died in the pit in 1873. I've never been able to prove if he's mine or not though, I've seen him tied to other parents in trees a few times. Shame really, I've no other records on him.
I think the William who died in 1845 is more than likley mine though. He's the right age and in the right area and if he moved to Shevington or Standish when he married Elizabeth Gore, he's only 2 1/2 to 3 miles away so you never know.

Thanks again Julie

Best wishes

John

Grrr.... my last post went into cyber space. When you get onto the Lancashire Records Office home page click on 'Records Search' on the left hand side menu.Then click on 'LANCAT' ( the online catalogue) then type 'Aspey' in the search box.

William's record is one of the first. I did wonder if the James 1873 was also yours? - first saw him on the coal mining history site you used to find Joseph in the pit accident records.

Julie

oooh John

There's other stuff on there that might be of interest like:

LANCASHIRE COURTS OF Quarter Sessions
Quarter Sessions:The Court in Session
Petitions

FindingNo QSP/2767/90
Level Item
Title Orrell to Whiston. Order of removal of Joseph Aspey, Mary his wife and William, Sarah and Joseph their children
Date 18 Feb 1820


Julie

Hi John

I'm not that good at Lancs geography but it looks like the William that died in Adlington (Lancs BMD) *is* the Chorley one (Free BMD).

"Adlington, Anderton and Heath Charnock are so close together that many visitors believe it to be just one small town"................................(I googled for that)

Because I found this at the Lancashire Records Office site:

Title
LANCASHIRE COURTS OF Quarter Sessions
Indexes
The Office of Coroner and Coroners' Accounts - Personal Name Index
FindingNo QSP 3242/95
Level Item
Title WILLIAM ASPEY
Date 1845
Description WILLIAM ASPEY
Place HEATH CHARNOCK
Comments

You can order that record if you think it's your William. If you e-mail them first they'll respond with details from the records that might help you identify him as yours before you order. Records I've ordered from them have cost between £5 -£10. So if you positively identify him as yours before ordering it might cost you less than the death certificate!

Julie

Hi Julie,

I've got Margaret marrying a Thomas Leigh around 1884, apparently they were next door neighbours in 1881. I've seen those trees by the way with Joseph tied in with the wrong parents. I'd copied the tree, typed in about 150+ names and only then did I apply for Joseph's birth certificate. Oops!
I've also had a look at the Peter Aspey living next door to the Turners. If he's a brother of the elder Joseph Aspey, then the Aspeys may have come from Prescot. I'll post what I've found later as I've got to get to work :-( (I'll try to post at work if I can)

Thanks again Julie

Best wishes, John

Aspull seems to be a very uncommon name, less than ten entries on free BMD and it doesn't appear at all in 1881. See here:

http://www.britishsurnames.co.uk/search.php?name=aspull&search=Search

So maybe those records are mistranscribed.

Aspull is actually a village in the Wigan area.

What a shame about Joseph. Poor Margaret left with all those children. Someone's tree on Ancestry suggests she went on to marry again. You should take a look at that tree (Beard I think). It gives some detail of the pit accident.

There are a couple of other trees with 'your' Joseph b.1842 attached but they've got the wrong parents. Bit silly really as they also have the 1841 census attached showing the other Joseph born to Robert & Jane as 6 months old so he couldn't possibly have been born 1842!

Julie

Hi John

Here are the Aspeys living next door to the Turners:

1861 England Census
about Peter Aspy
Name: Peter Aspy
Age: 59
Estimated birth year: abt 1802
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Onell, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Shevington
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Wigan
Sub-registration district: Standish
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 61
Household Members:
Name Age
Peter Aspy 59
Mary Ann Aspy 52
Thomas Aspy 21
Peter Aspy 11
Robert Aspy 6
Margret Aspy 19
Sarah Jane Aspy 3 Mo

Hi Julie,

Believe it or not I've had a look at that perticular William Aspey who died in 1845 and I didn't think much about it, but if they are connected to the name Aspull then could this be William Aspey's/Aspull's baptism record:

Baptisms: 13 Feb 1814 St Thomas the Martyr, Upholland, Lancashire, England
William Aspull - Child of Joseph Aspull & Mary
Abode: Orrell
Occupation: Collier

This seems to tie in with must of the info I already have on him. And also Joseph did have a brother called James i.e:

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
Search Results | Download | Print

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JAMES ASPEY Pedigree
Male


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 12 JAN 1844 Wigan, Lancashire, England

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: WILLIAM ASPEY
Mother: ELIZABETH


It sounds very convincing to say the least that this is right. I don't suppose you'd know which Aspeys they lived next door to?

BTW I found that Joseph died in a pit accident on http://www.cmhrc.co.uk/site/home/

He was the only Joseph Aspey around the right age who'd died in Wigan from 1871 to 1881.

Thanks for all your help Julie, I really appreciate it a lot.

With Thanks

John

Searching on Joseph no surname born 1842 in Shevington or Orrell doesn't give many results.

Apart from the OTHER Joseph Aspey born Orrell 1841 there is this:


1861 England Census
about Joseph Turner
Name: Joseph Turner
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1840
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Orrell

Civil parish: Orrell
Ecclesiastical parish: Pemberton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Wigan
Sub-registration district: Pemberton
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 145
Household Members:
Name Age
Margaret Turner 70
Elizabeth Turner 46
John Turner 33
Joseph Turner 21 >>>>>>
George Turner 12
Sarah A Burrows 5
Thos Silcock 30
Margaret Silcock 29
Mary Jan Silcock 3
Doroty Silcock 3 weeks

Maybe they couldn't remember if he was an Aspey or a Turner!

Of course he could be anyone's son - possibly the unmarried daughter Elizabeth's (aged 46 above) but if you decide to check out that Turner couple in 1851/61 they might just link in to this family.

Oh - forgot to say- that Turner couple are living next door to some Aspey's in 1861.

Julie

Btw I think the Askeys you have in 1881 are right. The image could easily be a P or a K.

Here they are in 1871:


1871 England Census
about Joseph Aspy
Name: Joseph Aspy
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Margaret
Gender: Male
Where born: Sherington, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Pemberton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrews
Town: Marsh Green
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Wigan
Sub-registration district: Pemberton
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Household schedule number: 182
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Aspy 29
Margaret Aspy 27
Mary Aspy 7
Ellen Aspy 4
Elizabeth Aspy 2

Julie

So did William die/perhaps they were estranged?

Couldn't find a marriage for Turner/Aspey but there is this:

Marriages Sep 1845 (>99%)

Beswick Henry Bolton 21 83
Crook Richard Bolton 21 83
>>Gore Elizabeth Bolton 21 83
LAWTON Ann Bolton 21 83
MCOWEN James Bolton 21 83
PARKER Margaret Bolton 21 83
TAYLOR Martha Bolton 21 83
>>Turner Peter Bolton 21 83

Then looked for poss death of William in 1844/45. Free BMD has two in 1845 but one is in Leeds and neither give age.

Lancashire BMD has this one:

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1845
Surname Forename(s) Age Sub-District Registers At Reference
ASPEY William 31 Adlington Preston ADL/1/88

I'm assuming that's the Chorley one on Free BMD?
The age is near enough.

SO! There's a possibility or it may be a complete red herring......and it doesn't help in finding Joseph jnr in 1861.....

How did you find out it was your Joseph that died in the pit accident?

Julie

Hi john

As we can't find William & Elizabeth in 1851 or 1861 here's a possible scenario based on the premise that James Aspey born Shevington 1844 is their child:

.
.
1851 England Census
about James Aspull
Name: James Aspull
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relation: Stepson
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Shevington, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Shevington
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image

Registration district: Wigan
Sub-registration district: Standish
ED, institution, or vessel: 3b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 24
Household Members:
Name Age
Peter Feimer 32
Elizabeth Feimer 32
John Feimer 4
Robert Turner 2
Thomas Turner 8 Mo
James Aspull 7

The image says Turner for the parents and it does say Aspull for James but that could be a mistake by the enumerator because here they are again in 1861


1861 England Census
about James Aspey
Name: James Aspey
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relation: Stepson
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Shevington, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Shevington
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Wigan
Sub-registration district: Standish
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 62
Household Members:
Name Age
Peter Turner 42
Elizabeth Turner 42
James Aspey 17
John Turner 15
Robert Turner 12
Ann Turner 8
Peter Turner 5
Elizabeth Turner 3


Will post more in a mo

Hi Julie,

I do have Joseph jnr's marriage certificate and this is what it says:

Joseph Aspey married Margaret Ascroft 31/5/1863 in St. Wilfred's in Standish, the parents were William Aspey and John Ascroft and the witnesses were Richard Barker (Margaret's brother-in-law) and Edward Bailey. Neither parent are listed as dead.
Joseph's children were Mary b1864, Ellen b1866, Elizabeth b1869, Sarah b1871, William b1874, Jane b1875, Joseph b1876. I've found in the last half hour that my Joseph was the Joseph Aspey killed in a pit accident in 1876.

Best wishes

John.