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Hi all,  I know im thick but I had a  big thread on here but somehow I have deleted it Doh!.  so I will give you what I know, please bear with me as it goes on a bit. Harriet Collar born 1830 Latton Essex, have her on 1841 and 1851 censuses, in 1859 she marries a Charles William Bennett, cert details ( St leonards church Shoredidtch, Charles William Bennett age 24, bachelor, occupation Grocer,address 7 Acton Place, father Charles William Bennett occupation Coach Proprietor) ( Harriet Collar age 29 spinster occupation Servant same address, Father John Collar occupation Land Steward)  all as it should be.  1861 census Harriet is in Leicestershire at her sisters home with a son of 3mths, same name as his father, but dads not there.  they all then vanish completly. 1871 a Harriet Martin starts to appear on the censuses in Tunbridge Wells kent, she is born 1830, latton essex, and is a widow, no children with her, she appears in 1881,1891 census but in 1893  turns up buried in Tunbridge Wells in a plot bought by my great grandfather Martin Collar her brother. Harriet Martin is not on any later censuses, she is buried as Harriet Bennet widow of Charles William Bennett Master Grocer of Tunbridge Wells.   I have recently found another marriage these are the details (parish church of St Botolph Aldersgate London,23 April 1863, Charles William Bennett bachelor age 27 occupation Dealer, address 8 Montague Place, father Charles William Bennett occupation Coach Proprietor.)( Mary Linford spinster age 25 address Hertford, father John Linford occupation publican) my guess is that they either divorced or maybe seperated and Charles married again bigimously, but what I dont understand is why would Harriett use the name Martin, I have searched for a marriage between either a Harriet Bennett or Collar to a Martin without any luck, niether can I account for the child Charles William born Leicestershire 1861, unable to find a death and no luck on later censuses. does anyone know if I there are records of divorces in around the 1860s ? I would love to put this one to bed as its been driving me nuts for ages, regards Chrys.

Hi freewheel Im sorry but im no typist, I tried to add to original thread but not really knowing what i was doing I thought it would nudge to the top of page, It didnt so like a plum I hit delete meaning to delete what i had just typed and lost evertthing.

nooooooooooooooooooo that was hours of work

hi Ladykira, I know, It was so stupid I just wasnt thinking, Its this second marriage that Iv found that is bugging me. Im sure Martin/Bennett is the same Harriet but how do I go about finding if they divorced, Oh I wish I was clever like so many of the kind people on here are, I purposly left that thread in case I needed any more help, I could kick myself.

Hi Anita Yes I have his birth cert, but unable to be sure when he died, not knowing where his mum was between 1861 and 1871, I know her sisters husband came from Kent so maybe they sent them to his family to help her. would it have been a thing she would have felt ashamed of,? seperating from husband I mean, My g grandfather was imformant on her death cert so either he didnt know any thing or he was covering up. I dont think Im going to find a marriage for her to a Martin, she either used her brothers christian name or lived with a Martin who died.

1861 census - household transcription
Person: COLLAR, Martin I
Address: 6, Hamilton Terrace, St Mary


COLLAR, Martin I Head Married M 23 1838 Gardener
Latton
Essex VIEW
COLLAR, Sophia Wife Married F 23 1838 Wife Of Gardener
Westcombe
Wiltshire VIEW
COLLAR, Matilda S Daughter Unmarried F 0 (10M) 1861
Lambourne
Berkshire

If I remember rightly Martin was her brother

1851 census - household transcription
Person: COLLER, Harriet
Address: Thurlaston, Thurlaston
COLLER, William Head Married M 34 1817 Gardener
Harlow
Essex VIEW
COLLER, Fanny Wife Married F 37 1814 Gardeners Wife
Upton Bishop
Herefordshire VIEW
COLLER, Charles William Son M 8 1843 Scholar
Elsenham
Essex VIEW
COLLER, Arthur Baldwin Son M 7 1844 Scholar
The Knoll Extra Pan
Leicestershire VIEW
COLLER, Mary Ann Daughter F 4 1847 Scholar
Thurlaston
Leicestershire VIEW
COLLER, Harriet Sister Unmarried F 21 1830 Laundress
Latton
Essex

1861 census - household transcription
Person: BENNETT, Harriet
Address: 22, Public House Roe Buck, North Street, Thurlaston

LUTT, Edward Head Married M 39 1822 Grocer And Publican
...
Hampshire VIEW
LUTT, Mary Ann Wife Married F 40 1821
Latton
Essex VIEW
LUTT, Mary E Daughter F 9 1852
Thurlaston
Leicestershire VIEW
LUTT, Harriet Daughter F 7 1854
Thurlaston
Leicestershire VIEW
LUTT, Edward Y Son M 4 1857
Thurlaston
Leicestershire VIEW
LUTT, Charles P W Son M 2 1859
Thurlaston
Leicestershire VIEW
BENNETT, Harriet Sister In Law Married F 31 1830 Formerly Servant
Latton
Essex VIEW
BENNETT, Charles W Nephew M 0 (3M) 1861
Thurlaston
Leicestershire


Agai memory tells me their was a mistranscrption tutt=lutt

hi Ladykira, Martin was her brother, He moved to Tunbridge Wells between the 1891 and 1903 censuses, and was according to the death cert present at her death. Im hoping to find a marriage for Harriet to a Martin although Im not going to hold my breath, and also I still have the problem of the son, If he was alive in 1871 he would have only been 10 and I would have expected him to be with Harriet. something tells me Im going to have to start thinking of adoption perhaps!. None of Harriets family have him with them but it may be worth trying to search for him alone. clutching at straws again, Chrys.

Hi Ladykira Both 1851 and 61 are correct, 51 with her older brother William and his family, they were both wittnesses at thier sister Marys wedding, 1861 Harriet with sister Mary and her family. Chrys.

1871 census - household transcription
Person: MARTIN, Harriett
Address: North Street, Tunbridge, Tunbridge Wells
MARTIN, Harriett Head F 42 1829 Essex

1881 census - household transcription
Person: MARTIN, Harriett
Address: 27, Albert Street, Tunbridge

MARTIN, Harriett Head Married F 51 1830 House Keeper Lodging Ho Keeper
Sutton
Essex VIEW
HAMMOND, Horace Boarder Widower M 65 1816 Builder
Wadhurst
Sussex VIEW
MOREN, Martin Lodger Single M 50 1831 Traveller
Roscommon
Ireland VIEW
ADAMS, Albert Lodger Single M 21 1860 Solicitors Clerk
Bristol
Somerset

1891 census - household transcription
Person: MARTIN, Harriett
Address: 29, Albert Street, Tunbridge, Tunbridge Wells


MARTIN, Harriett Head Widow F 62 1829 Seamstress
Latton
Essex VIEW


I think one suggestion was Harriet,martins sister
perhaps he was responsible for her

Hi ladykira, Harriet Martin1871 1881 is I think my Harriet ,but as you can see no husband or children present. I think she must have been without any family near by when she died as otherwise why would my g grandfather have arranged her burial, his wife Sophia and himself were later buried in the same plot. chrys

possible

1871 census - household transcription
Person: BENNETT, Charles William
Address: Gray's Inn Road (Royal Free Hospital), St Pancras, London


BENNETT, Charles William Patient M 10 1861 Middlesex

hi again Ladykira my word your fast! I have seen this census for charles in the hospital and i did wonder, forgot about it when looking for a death for him, I will look again I might find one that ties in with the area at least many thanks chrys.

did we find this before


1861 census - household transcription
Person: BENNETT, Charles
Address: 22, Chandlers Shop, Rephidam Street, St George The Martyr, Southwark



BENNETT, Charles Head ... M 62 1799 Grocer
...
Kent VIEW
BENNETT, Richd Son Married M 26 1835 Dealer In...
Convent Garden
Middlesex VIEW
BENNETT, Alfd Daughter In Law Married F 21 1840
...
Wiltshire

Hi Ladykira, No i dont think we have seen this census before, the occupation isnt right because his father is given as being a Coach Proprietor on both Marriages, but who knows, We do have a grocer and a dealer but whether they are the same ones I couldnt say,I have had a quick look on free BMD for a possible death for the son around the Pancras area but couldnt find one. Chrys.

another grocer/prospective but unmarried 1861

1861 census - household transcription
Person: BENNETT, Charles
Address: 9, Gabriels Hill, Maidstone

OXFORD, Edward Head Married M 30 1831 Grocer...
Hollingbourne
Kent VIEW
OXFORD, Maria Wife Married F 31 1830
Tovil
Kent VIEW
OXFORD, Julia M Daughter F 2 1859
Maidstone
Kent VIEW
OXFORD, Albert ... Son M 1 1860
Maidstone
Kent VIEW
OXFORD, Edward C Son M 0 (2M) 1861
Maidstone
Kent VIEW
HODGSON, Fanny Visitor Unmarried F 26 1835
Essex VIEW
BENNETT, Charles Servant Unmarried M 25 1836 Shopman...
Tovil
Kent VIEW
BENNETT, Emma Servant Unmarried F 16 1845 General Servant
Charing
Kent

this last one is quite interesting, Its possible that if Harriet had left him he may have said he was unmarried. The name Hodgson is familiar there are cousins with that name but dont know of any connection to the family of Oxfords.