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For those who may be interested, I just received some more news in the form of Florence Butler's death certificate. It states that she killed herself by inhaling coal gas "at a moment when she was not of sound mind some time during the previous night." Her occupation is listed as "wife of George Butler, present occupation and address unknown." Despite this, she is described as a widow in the probate record.
Thanks again to all who offered advice.

David


It is not surprising that you cannot find any record of service in WW1


Very few of the records survive for the men .......... officers are different, I think almost all those records have survived.


What happened was that at the outset of WW2, the WW1 records were moved from the Ministry of Defense to another building in London that was deemed to be safer.


It was bombed

Many records were destroyed completely, or damaged to a great or lesser degree.


the surviving records were then moved to a building at Kew

............... and I was once told that there had been a subsequent fire there as well (but that information has been questioned by some people, and I am not sure how true it is).


Whatever ............. it means that only about 30% of the records have survived to be digitised .......... and most of those are damaged (torn, burnt, etc) and incomplete.




Add into that the fact that George William might have enlisted under another name ...... he could be there as G W, as George, as William, or under an entirely different name.


I worked on a guy the other week who enlisted under his real name, was kicked out for bad behaviour, re-enlisted under a different name, married under that name, then returned to his original name after the war was over ...... and married someone else under that name!



I did try looking at the records the other night ........... often it is possible to find someone on the Medal Record, more of which seem to have survived, than on the service record. Every serviceman got at least one medal ........ for serving in the war, plus one for serving overseas if they went to France or elsewhere.

But I couldn't find him on there




sylvia

I agree. If I could find living relatives I might find the story. As for identity theft, I can't image how anyone could accomplish such a thing in the early 20th century, particularly from half a world away. How would the man who identified himself as George William Butler in Canada have even known of the existence of George William Butler in England?

Another mystery concerns the First World War. George claimed to have served with the Canadian Expeditionary Force from 1914-1916. But there is no record of him serving with the Canadian military, ever.

Then I discovered that on his 1940 draft registration in Canada, he said he had served with the British army in WWI. I can't find any record of him there, either.

He would have been 35 years old at the outbreak of the war, and unlikely to avoid conscription, either in Canada or the U.K. What could he have been doing during those years that seems to have left no trace at all? Where could he have been?

The 1945 birth certificate is what allowed me to trace him through censuses and his marriage to Florence Kendall. He appears in every census since 1881, except for 1911, when he seems to have disappeared.
The problem I have is that George William told a totally different story in Canada about his background. He claimed to have been born and raised in Australia. Then, one day he announced that he had met a man who told him that he had actually been born in England.
In 1945, my father, stationed in England with the RCAF, obtained a copy of George William's birth certificate showing his birth in England, as well as entirely different parents -- Charles Butler and Jane Hoskisson.
My biggest regret is that I did not question my father, who died in 1999, about that certificate. I have no idea how he identified the person named on the certificate as his father.
An interesting aside -- in his 1922 marriage, apparently bigamous, he identified his mother as "Jane Kendall." He said she had been born in France.
I would very much like to obtain a pre-1906 signature of GW Butler. Does the handwriting of the man in England match the man in Canada, I wonder. That would settle it. Or DNA. Or some family lore originating in England about the man who disappeared.

Isn't the groom's father's name on the 1922 marriage cert?

Who did he name as his parents on the 1945 birth cert?

Did the 1945 birth cert give you enough info to trace George William Butler in English censuses.?

Seems more likely his blood relatives just might remember a relative who 'escaped' overseas and possibly left a wife behind.

I think identity theft less likely in this case, especially given census 1911 shows Florence had probably already 'gone home to Mother'. It could have been just for a visit, but it could have been for good.

Clifford Oates died in Lincolnshire, so his family, if he had one, may also be relatively local:

Death:
Name: Clifford Oates
Birth Date: 7 Feb 1915
Death Registration Month/Year: Sep 1999
Age at death (estimated): 84
Registration district: North Lincolnshire
Inferred County: Lincolnshire
Register number: C42B
District and Subdistrict: 5541C
Entry number: 231

Possible marriage?
Name: Clifford Oates
Spouse Surname: Morris
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1940
Registration district: Gainsborough
Registration county (inferred): Lincolnshire
Volume Number: 7a
Page Number: 2801

Wife:
Name: Maud Marris
Spouse Surname: Oates
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1940
Registration district: Gainsborough
Registration county (inferred): Lincolnshire
Volume Number: 7a
Page Number: 2801


EDIT: two daughters born of the marriage. let me know if you want me to pm them to you.

Wow!
Thanks to all who offered advice, and put in so much effort searching records.
I have some of this information, but I'll have to go through all the replies closely to see what is new.

I agree that the claim that Florence was a widow at the time of her death was probably spurious. I'm wondering, though, whether that claim came from her son during the administration of her estate, small though it was.

She appears to have died without a will, and it would have been to her son's advantage to establish that her husband was dead, as I assume he would have been the legal heir. I'm awaiting copies of a newspaper report on the inquest held after her suicide, but I'm told that there was nothing reported at the time that would indicate she was a widow. Interesting.

One of my research goals is to prove that the George William Butler who married my grandmother in Canada in 1922 was the same GWB who married Florence Kendall years earlier. I have a birth certificate issued in 1945, but I have no idea why that certificate was issued. There is always the possibility that the George William Butler in Canada was guilty of identity theft.

Thanks again to all.
-Dave in Canada

George and Edith had one additional child born before 1911:

Census 1911 :

OATES, George Head Married M 34 1877 Blackmill Lincolnshire Atthorpe VIEW
OATES, Edith Wife Married 5 years F 29 1882 Lincolnshire Winterton VIEW
OATES, Mabel Daughter F 3 1908 Lincolnshire Scunthorpe VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
20082 Reference:
RG14PN20082 RG78PN1201 RD424 SD2 ED15 SN116

Registration District:
Glanford Brigg Sub District:
Winterton Enumeration District:
15 Parish:
Scunthorpe

Address:
26 Dunstall St Scunthorpe Linc County:
Lincolnshire

Looks like Maud and Alfred only had Mary born 1912.

Census 1911:

FRANKISH, Alfred Percy Head Married M 26 1885 Tailor Lincolnshire Grasby VIEW
FRANKISH, Maude Beatrice Wife F 25 1886 Lincolnshire Burton VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
20076 Reference:
RG14PN20076 RG78PN1201 RD424 SD2 ED9 SN69

Registration District:
Glanford Brigg Sub District:
Winterton Enumeration District:
9 Parish:
Burton upon Stather

Address:
Burton on Stather Doncaster County:
Lincolnshire

Maude married in 1910:

Marriages Jun 1910 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Frankish Alfred Percy Glanford B. 7a 1549
PORKESS Maud Beatrice Glanford B. 7a 1549

Child of the marriage?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Jun 1912 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Frankish Mary Porkess Glanford B. 7a 1424


Edith married in 1906:


Marriages Jun 1906 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CARLINE Hannah Maria Glanford B. 7a 1759
Hudson Thomas Glanford B. 7a 1759
OATES George Revill Glanford B. 7a 1759
PORKESS Edith Harriet Glanford B. 7a 1759

two children of the marriage?

Births Mar 1912 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OATES Raymond Porkess Glanford B. 7a 1296

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1915 (99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oates Clifford Porkess Glanford B. 7a 1305

Thomas and Emily Porkess only had two children of their marriage, both still living in 1911. One of them must have been Milicent's parent. Looks like Milicent was born out of wedlock.


The family in census 1901.

Name: Thomas Porkess
Age: 44
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Emily Porkess
Gender: Male
Where born: Winterton, Lincolnshire, England

Civil Parish: Burton On Stather
Ecclesiastical parish: Burton on Stather St Andrew
Town: Burton On Stather
County/Island: Lincolnshire
Country: England
Registration district: Glanford Brigg
Sub-registration district: Winterton
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 59

Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Porkess 44
Emily Porkess 47
Edith H Porkess 19
Maude B Porkess 15
Edwin T Sheersmith 23
Richard Hemsworth 21

passenger transcript details
Name: George W BUTLER
Date of departure: 20 October 1909
Port of departure: Southampton
Passenger destination port: New York, USA
Passenger destination: New York, USA

Date of Birth:
Age:
Marital status: Married
Sex: Male
Occupation: Carpenter
Passenger recorded on: Page 1 of 12





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage: -

George W BUTLER Page 1 of 12 View transcript
Rosa BUTLER Page 1 of 12 View transcript



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ship:
Official Number:
Master's name:
Steamship Line:
Where bound:
Square feet:
Registered tonnage:
Passengers on voyage:
TEUTONIC
96334
R W James
White Star Line
New York, USA
17088
9984
308

Not sure as there is this marriage

Marriages Dec 1906 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUTLER George William Milton 2a 2056
CROSS Rosa Milton 2a 2056

Births Mar 1907 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUTLER George William Milton 2a 1010

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Florence ans several sibs in 1881:

Name: Florence Isabell Kendall
Age: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: George Kendall
Mother's name: Catherine Kendall
Gender: Female
Where born: Frodingham, Lincoln, England

Civil Parish: Frodingham
County/Island: Lincolnshire
Country: England

Registration district: Glanford Brigg
Sub-registration district: Winterton
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
George Kendall 48
Catherine Kendall 42
Joseph Henry Kendall 20
Martha Jane Kendall 16
George Albert Kendall 13
William Thomas Kendall 11
Annie Laura Kendall 8
Arthur John Kendall 5
>>Florence Isabell Kendall 1
George Boothby 19

Well, I still think you've done a good job identifying a possible emigration from England for George.

If he was in Canada by 1922, then from what you say it looks as if it will be hard to track down what he did and where he went between the breakup with Florence and when David has evidence for him living in Canada.

Thanks for explaining the difficulty about searching records for immigration into Canada.

Kucinta


searching passenger arrivals into Canada is not easy

...... they're not indexed until about 1922, so you have to know which port, in which province they arrived, then search the passenger lists ship by ship


so you need to know if they went to Halifax, Montreal, Quebec City, St John New Brunswick, Sydney Nova Scotia, maybe St Johns Newfoundland


and then a passenger could have gone to the US first, then crossed the border into Canada (some people emigrating to the US went to Canada first, as well)





we need david to return and see what he says!





sylvia

Wow, if that's 'your' George W, Sylvia's found, the marriage really was over fast!!!

???????????????/


from findmypast passenger lists ................. again, I don't have a sub on there


BUTLER George W Unknown M 1909 Southampton USA New York VIEW VIEW
BUTLER George W Unknown M 1909 Southampton USA New York VIEW VIEW




sylvia

Does anyone have access to records of arrivals in Canada, so we could maybe pinpoint when George William Butler arrived there?

The marriage seems to have been over pretty quickly if the 1911 census is anything to go by. George probably figured with the ocean between them, he could put his first family behind him and start anew.

And as has been said nearer the beginning of the thread, it was probably easier for Florence to become a 'widow'.

You could probably try and trace some of Florence's sibs in earler censuses with the data provided on George, Catherine and Florence Kendall, and then try tracing their living descendants, but chance's are these events are so long ago they won't know anything much about them.

The probate of the will



England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations),1861-1941

Name: Florence Isabel Butler
Probate Date: 30 Aug 1930
Death Date: 11 Oct 1929
Death Place: Lincolnshire, England
Registry: Lincoln



from image:-

Butler Florence Isabel of 24 Henderson Avenue Scunthorpe and Frodingham Lincolnshire, widow, died 11 October 1929. Administration [granted] Lincoln 30 August [1930] to Arnold Charles Kendall Butler bank clerk. Effects £200 0s 3d




so the only "evidence" that she was a widow is that, and whatever she told people





sylvia