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I am trying to trace my g/grand father William Frederick Butler born 1855 c died 1913c here is all the info I have for him.

My grandfather Herbert Christopher Butler married Alice Foddering on 9th June 1897 at St Magdeline Southwark, Fathers name William Frederick Butler. he lived at 69 Weston Street Southwark, there is no mention of a mothers name. Their marriage cert gives their ages as Herbert 22 Alice 19, witnesses William Poole and Ellen Battson

In the 1911 Peckham census Herbert was staying with his brother which gives Herbert & Charles birth place as Peckham London but I have other info that say's Herbert was born in Wandsworth in 1878. this Charles was born in 1887.

I have inquired with the Butler Society but they have no record of William.

Can you list the ages, occupations and witnesses from the marriage cert?

Rose

Can you list them in 1901?

Rose

The only Peckham Charles with a Herbert in 1911 was born 1867. Does the image say 1887?

Rose

Colin,

Please click on the Reply button at the top of the page to respond.

"1897 wedding, Alice Foddering 22 Herbert Christopher 19, father William Frederick Butler paper maker, James Foddering father, seaman.
witnesses William Poole & Ellen Battson."

Rose

Hi Rose

You seem to have the right family.

I have been trying to trace William for many years now with no luck, it is as though he came from outer space, very frustrating, it was suggested that they came from Ireland but all searches come up negative ,.

As to Herbert's birth date I come up with confusing results if you take his age at marriage is 22 off 1897 it comes to 1875 but in the 1911 census at which it states that Herbert was 35 it come up at 1876

Checking marriages between 1870/80 we come up with two possibles.

Marriages Jun 1877 (>99%)
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Butler William Frederick Lambeth 1d 649

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Marriages Sep 1879 (>99%)
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BUTLER William Frederick Pancras 1b 106


There is only one william on the 1891 census with a son herbert, however no charles, and william is a wigmaker?

Regards Linda :)

and two possible births:

Dec qtr 1857
BUTLER William Frederick Birmingham 6d 42

Dec 1860
Butler William Frederick Bedford Croydon 2a 165

Regards Linda :)

Can you list details of Herbert and Alice's children? When were they born?

I just don't see them in 1901.

Please list all the details from 1911 also. It would be helpful to find Charles.

Rose

OK,

I've managed to find Alice in 1911, but she's living with a William Wright. I'm guessing he's the father of the last 2 few children. Is this correct?

Schedule type Last names First names Sex Birth year Age in 1911 District / other County / other Transcript Original page
HOUSEHOLD BUTLER ALICE F 1878 33 Camberwell London
HOUSEHOLD WRIGHT WILLIAM M 1884 27 Camberwell London
HOUSEHOLD BUTLER WINIFRED F 1897 14 Camberwell London
HOUSEHOLD BUTLER JAMES M 1898 13 Camberwell London
HOUSEHOLD BUTLER ALEC M 1900 11 Camberwell London
HOUSEHOLD BUTLER LESLIE M 1908 3 Camberwell London
HOUSEHOLD BUTLER ALICE F 1910 10 MONTHS Camberwell London

Rose

Hi Rose & Linda

I have finally got around to checking the reply's to my search for William.

I know that Leslie Wright Butler's father was William Wright's son and we always had this feeling that there could be others, we always felt that my mother Eileen was not a Butler. Alice ran a boarding house and had many men friends, and Herbert did leave her for a period of time.

I have the 1911 census which gives Charles aged 44 so that makes it 1867.

Here are Herbert & Alice's children.

Winifred 1896 (1 year before their marriage)
James Herbert 1897-1948
Alec 1899
Felicia 1900 c
Rosemary 1901
? Harry 1903
Leslie Wright Butler 1908 - 1969
Robert Frederick 1912 - 1969
Eileen 1914 - 1995

The witnesses for Herbert's wedding does not give their age.

Is there any info regarding the 2 possible weddings for William in either 1877 or 1879, and the births 1857 or 1860.

looking forward to hearing from you both.

Cheers Colin

Hi Colin,

Please would you list all the details from 1911 for Herbert and Charles?

Rose

This William Frederick is a paper maker:

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Ellen Bedford Pim
Name: Ellen Bedford Pim
Spouse Name: William Frederick Butler
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 22 Oct 1854
Parish: Saint Mary, Newington
County: Middlesex
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: John Bedford Pim
Spouse Father Name: Henry Butler

Rose

The son Charles was born in 1867 so maybe I'm on the right track:

1871 England Census
about William F Butler
Name: William F Butler
Age: 42
Estimated birth year: abt 1829
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Ellen Bedford
Gender: Male
Where born: Broad Clyst, Devon, England
Civil parish: Maidstone
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Maidstone
Sub-registration district: East Maidstone
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 33
Household Members: Name Age
William F Butler 42
Ellen Bedford Butler 40
Julia Bedford Butler 17
William F Butler 13
Emily A Butler 11
Henry E C Butler 7
John A Butler 5
Charles N Butler 4
Ellen C B Butler 1

Rose

Looks like I have them. Christopher must be Herbert.

1881:

Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Ellen C BUTLER Head W Female 40 Bermondsey Salvage Broker
Julia B. BUTLER Daur U Female 26 Whitechapel Servant
William F. BUTLER Son U Male 24 Sussex, England General Dealer
Henry E. BUTLER Son U Male 19 Bow
John A. BUTLER Son U Male 17 Bow Engine Cleaner
Charles N. BUTLER Son Male 14 Bow
Ellen C. BUTLER Daur Female 10 Maidstone
Edward BUTLER Son Male 7 Maidstone
Christopher BUTLER Son Male 5 New X Rd
Hephzibah BUTLER Daur Female 3 Asylum Rd
Newland BUTLER Son Male 1 Astbury Rd

Source Information:
Dwelling 54 Pomeroy St
Census Place Deptford St Paul, Kent, England
Family History Library Film 1341166
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0711 / 40
Page Number 20

Rose

Look at this! Battson.

1891 England Census
about Newland Bather
Name: Newland Bather
[Newland Butler]
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation: Stepson
Mother's Name: Ellen C
Gender: Male
Where born: Peckham, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Georges
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England
Employment status: View image
Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 13a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Percwal A Battson 23
Ellen C Battson 43
Newland Butler 12

Rose

Ellen was telling a few porkies about her age. Very big age difference between them:

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Percival Albert Battson
Name: Percival Albert Battson
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1867
Spouse Name: Ellen Caroline Butler
Spouse Age: 46
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 3 Aug 1890
Parish: All Souls, Newington
County: Middlesex
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Henry Battson
Spouse Father Name: John Bedford Pim

Rose

Ellen in 1841:

1841 England Census
about Ellen Pim
Name: Ellen Pim
Age: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1840
Gender: Female
Where born: Surrey, England

Civil parish: St John Horsleydown
Hundred: Southwark
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: St Olaves
Sub-registration district: St John
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Bedford Pim 40
Sarah Pim 38
Mary Ann Pim 16
John Pim 10
Julia Pim 8
Edward Pim 4
Ellen Pim 1

Rose

William Frederick was actually married to Ellen's sister Julia first. That explains the daughter called Julia. I couldn't see how Ellen could have been old enough to be the mother.

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about William Frederick Butler
Name: William Frederick Butler
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1827
Spouse Name: Julia Bedford Pearcey Pim
Spouse Age: 18
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 6 Jun 1852
Parish: Saint Philip, Stepney
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Henry Butler
Spouse Father Name: John Bedford Pim



From FreeBMD, it looks like Julia died in childbirth.


Rose

William in 1851:

1851 England Census
about William F Butler
Name: William F Butler
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1828
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Breadelist, Devon, England

Civil parish: St Mary Whitechapel
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: Whitechapel
Sub-registration district: Whitechapel Church
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 91
Household Members: Name Age
William F Butler 23
Henry C Butler 24

Rose