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help to find surname

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 31 Jan 2008 13:50

Oh, I'm dying of curiosity as usual, so do please let us know how you get on!

Grace

Grace Report 31 Jan 2008 13:20

You have done a great job, Susannah's family are from Fordham, so that looks correct. Also you mention Birch in Cambridgeshire, there is a village, Birch couple of miles away from Fordham I guess someone may have the wrong County, we are in Essex.
I will send for the cert, and also the passenger list, and if you don't mind will keep in touch, and let you no how I get on, regards, Beth

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 31 Jan 2008 00:46

Okay, so, listen.


In 1871 we have that Susannah Delasalle, lodger, unmarried, born c1848 in Cambridge (the image says Chambridge), and I think it says she's a seamstress.


In 1881 we have:


Name: Susannah Dalsall
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: George
Gender: Female
Where born: Fordham, Essex, England
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Tailoress

Name: George Dalsall
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Susannah
Gender: Male
Where born: Copford, Essex, England
Occupation: Labourer (Fl)

Civil Parish: Manningham
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street address: 207 Kensington St

Registration district: Bradford
Sub-registration district: Horton
ED, institution, or vessel: 87


Now, are these looking like the same Susannah?

And like your Susannah? And the George Delsall aged 47 who travelled to Canada in 1893?

They do to me, I say.

I would:

(a) get the marriage certificate
(b) get the original image for the passenger list to Canada in 1893

and see whether there's anything at all to be learned from them.


Unless I've gone off the deep end here completely, and now that you've found out that she was Susannah Balls, you've lost interest in her!!

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 31 Jan 2008 00:14

I can't think of a single other thing to try. I really do think that "Dellersall" is a mis-hearing or mis-writing of something else, and De la Salle seems like a reasonable guess.

You're going to get the certificate, right?? At least then we'd have George's age and father's name ...

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 31 Jan 2008 00:09

So there's nothing in New Brunswick. Nothing in Manitoba. A fuzzy search for Dellersall in British Columbia produces a marriage:

Groom Name: Louis Henry Delesalle
Place New Westminster
Reg. Number: 1917-09-128986 Copy Available
Bride Name Marie Theres Delagiroday (not)
Date: 1917 8 15 (Yr/Mo/Day)
Event: Marriage
Microfilm #: B11383 (GSU # 1983976)


and the deaths of those two people and what would be their son.

Closest things in Nova Scotia are a couple of entries for Deller/Dellers and Delass.

The Delasalla (probably should be Dellasalla) children in BC show up in the 1911 census with deceased parents, apparently:

Francis Delaselle 8
Oscar Pekasella 10
Ethel Pekasella 6
Victor Pekasella 5

(and you thought the English transcriptions at Ancestry were bad)

There are 47 De la Salle listings in the Cdn phone book today ...

Checked the old Cdn censuses for De la Salle, La Salle and just Salle. There are some, but none of obvious interest to us.

In the Ontario deaths, there are Salles, la Salles, Dela Salles, but again, no Susannah. Ditto NS, NB, BC, Manitoba.

Google finds not one result for Dellersall. Soon, it will return this thread ...


JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 30 Jan 2008 23:30

So, I'm considering Delasalle as what Dellersall might really have been. It isn't actually a common name in Canada, but it's a possibility.

So I search the 1871 English census for Susannah Del* and I find this one:

Name: Susanna Delasall (it actually says Delasalle)
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Cambridgeshire, England

Civil Parish: Birch
County/Island: Essex
Country: England


but really, that's no match.

Still no death in 1893 in Ontario ... and I so much do not want to go searching at other province's sites ...

Oo! Do you suppose George was Italian, and he had a son with the same name who was in the 1901 Canadian census??

Name: George Delasalla
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 36
Birth Date: !! Sep 1864
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's Name: Sophia
Immigration Year: 1888
Racial or Tribal Origin: Italian

Okay, that's getting silly ...

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 30 Jan 2008 23:12

And that is the single, one and only Dellersall record in the entire transcribed GRO index at FreeBMD. And in the entire Ancestry database, all countries combined.

It's clear on the GRO image though: Dellersall.

Wonder what it *really* was. ;)

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 30 Jan 2008 23:08

... and still not a Dellersall or anything resembling it in any Canadian record at Ancestry ...

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 30 Jan 2008 23:06

Alrighty, a confirmed fact!


Marriages Jun 1865
Alliston Mary Ann Lexden 4a 403
>> Balls Susannah Lexden 4a 403
>> Dellersall George Lexden 4a 403
Manning John Lexden 4a 403

Grace

Grace Report 30 Jan 2008 21:32

Thanks to every one especially Kathryn B for your help, I had a breakthrough today, A second cousin picked up the search and tells me that Susannah's maiden name was Balls not Cranfield, it was her sister Emma who married a Cranfield. She does not no either why she went to Canada. or whether she had any family, Her marriage in June 1865 was to George Dellersall (different spelling to mine) so with all your help and advice it looks as if we are nearly there. Beth

jansmith

jansmith Report 30 Jan 2008 14:13

Just click on Kathryn's name and this will open a box that you can send a message straight to her personally and not appear on the boards

Grace

Grace Report 30 Jan 2008 14:03

Thanks Margaret, yes I had realised,I should not give my address over on the boards, so how do I do it if I don't know her address!! I am sure there will be a simple answer, I will get the hang of this one day, I hope.

Battenburg

Battenburg Report 30 Jan 2008 03:57


Grace
Kathryn means for you to contact her by pm (send private message with your e mail address) because you should never put your e mail on open boards like these.

Grace

Grace Report 29 Jan 2008 20:50

Thanks to a collegue of yours I found the threads and you! Census from 1851, Copford, Essex. Puts Susannah aged 11, with her family, her sister Maryanne is our Gt Gt Grandmother,
I can see what you mean re:-dates perhaps she needed to drop a few years at some time, wouldn't we all like to do that!
The Birth and Marriage also could be correct, but why would some one keep a card in a Bible which gives her name as Susannah Delsall loving sister of Emma Cranfield. Also there being talk of an Aunt living in Canada.
I found it interesting that a George Delsall leaving Liverpool in 1893, On the tips Board the 19th Jan. Lynne says, a Susannah married a George Dalsell living in Yorkshire, I wonder if its the same person? again thank you for your help, What does p.m rmean re;- my e-mail addrress

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 29 Jan 2008 03:26

More Delsalls in outbound passenter lists:


DELSALL 29 F 1914 Liverpool USA New York
DELSALL F 7 M 1914 Liverpool USA New York
DELSALL H 30 M 1914 Liverpool USA New York


But there just aren't any in England!


JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 29 Jan 2008 03:04

There are two households in the UK census:


In 1851:

Betty Delsall 38
Betty Delsall 7
John Delsall 2
Sarah Delsall 10

in Warrington


in 1841:

Amos Delsall 10 Mo
John Delsall 30
Mary Delsall 30

in Chorlton


BUT in fact, both of those records actually read KELSALL, if you ask me.

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 29 Jan 2008 02:57

Now this is interesting, at

http://www.findmypast.com/passengerListPersonSearchStart.action

DELSALL George
age 47 M
date of departure 1893
departure port Liverpool
destination country Canada
destination port Quebec


That almost looks like someone travelling out to Canada because of the death of a family member.

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 29 Jan 2008 02:53

And then there are the Delzells:


Ontario:

John DELZELL M Male Scottish 50 Scotland Farmer C. Presbyterian
Isabella DELZELL M Female Scottish 39 Scotland C. Presbyterian
Margret DELZELL Female Scottish 16 O C. Presbyterian
John DELZELL Male Scottish 14 O C. Presbyterian
Samuel DELZELL Male Scottish 13 O C. Presbyterian
Agness DELZELL Female Scottish 11 O C. Presbyterian
Robert DELZELL Male Scottish 8 O C. Presbyterian
Jessie DELZELL Female Scottish 6 O C. Presbyterian
Mary DELZELL Female Scottish 4 O C. Presbyterian
Isabella DELZELL Female Scottish 2 O C. Presbyterian
James DELZELL Male Scottish C. Presbyterian


But no Delsalls.

You're definitely reading that name correctly?

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 29 Jan 2008 02:50

So these are the Dalsells in the 1881 Cdn census -- available only at familysearch.org, free of charge:


New Brunswick:

Samuel DALSELL M Male Irish 59 Ireland Cabinet Maker Presbyterian
Ellen DALSELL M Female Irish 61 Ireland Presbyterian
James DALSELL Male Irish 28 New Brunswick Cabinet Maker Presbyterian
Frederick DALSELL Male Irish 20 New Brunswick Cabinet Maker Presbyterian
Bessie DALSELL Female Irish 24 New Brunswick Presbyterian


New Brunswick:

Thomas DALSELL Male Scottish 25 Scotland Stonecrafter Presbyterian


Ontario:

John DALSELL W Male Scottish 42 Ontario Farmer Primitive Methodist
John DALSELL Male Scottish 15 Ontario Primitive Methodist
Mary DALSELL Female Scottish 12 Ontario Primitive Methodist
Mary DALSELL W Female Scottish 64 Scotland Primitive Methodist
Adam DALSELL Male Scottish 34 Ontario Farmer Primitive Methodist

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 29 Jan 2008 00:28

I'm not clear on the timeline.


- Susannah Cranfield in the 1851 census aged 11yrs.
- her death in Canada in 1893 aged 48

11 in 1851 = ~1840
48 in 1893 = ~1845

I'd want to make sure we have the same/right person.

This is the only one FreeBMD has:

Births Mar 1844
CRANFIELD Susannah Halstead 12 11_

and this is the only marriage:

Marriages Dec 1859
Cranfield Susannah Lexden 4a 527
Pudney James Lexden 4a 527


Both in Essex, so I'd assume them to be both the same person, and to be your Susannah, from the info already in this thread relating to Emma Cranfield in Essex. No subsequent marriage by any Susannah Pudney to a Delsall or anything like.