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Please can anyone help me find my paternal grandmother who married Frederick John Parker on 30th March 1911 at the registery office in Marylebone,London both aged 24.

A few days later when the 1911 census was taken he is at same address as on marriage certificate but named Frederick Robert aged 22 and single and Amy seems to have disappeared!

Amy's name on marr.cert. is Eliza Amelia Amy Harris,father Thomas Harris (deceased).
Amy had fallen pregnant in service and her 1 yr old daughter Dorothy (Parker) can be found in Bolton Road on the 1911 census being nursed.

Searching for all the variations the only likely census result seems to be an Amy Parker in Sumatra Rd (all addresses reasonably close ) working as a servant but age is wrong and also says married 3 years instead of 3 days!! Birth place Bristol.

This took me to Long Ashton- Somerset where I find Amelia Elizabeth Harris married to Tom Harris daughter Eliza born 20th May 1886.Amelia dies shortly after the birth and this Eliza is brought up by her mother's brother and wife Nathan and Elizabeth Young.

Please can anyone help me prove or disprove all this or tell me where to start looking again.Or maybe someone with Young or Harris from Long Ashton families can offer some input.Amy has been the most elusive person ever.Do I need professional help.Thank you to anyone who has the time to try and digest all that.I will be very grateful for even the tiniest bit of help.Wendy

First, can you elaborate a bit on some info?

Also, if you space things out (hit "Enter" twice to create white space) it will be easier to follow.

"Amelia Elizabeth Harris married to Tom Harris daughter Eliza born 20th May 1886"

-- it sounds like you have a birth certificate. Can you identify the registration for us?

Aha -- Long Ashton is in this reg dist:

Births Jun 1886
HARRIS Eliza Bedminster 5c 727

To start tracing her forward ... this is the household in 1891 in Long Ashton, Somerset:


Nathan Young 31
Elizabeth Young 29
Frederick Charles Young 7
Arthur Henry Young 3
Mabel Young 1
Eliza Harris 4 - born Long Ashton
Frederick George Young 26


And in 1901 in Long Ashton:

Nathan Young 42
Elizabeth Young 40
Charles Young 17
Arthur Young 13
Mabel Young 11
Gertrude Young 3
Eliza Harris 14

1911 has one Eliza born 1886-1888 in Long Ashton:

TOOMBS ELIZA ANN 1888 23 Bristol Gloucestershire

The rest of that household:

TOOMBS FREDERICK CHARLES 1886 25 Bristol Gloucestershire
TOOMBS LILLA ELIZA ANN 1910 4 MONTHS Bristol Gloucestershire

That one seems to be this one in 1901:

Name: Eliza Ann Fisher
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joel T
Mother's Name: Lilla
Where born: Long Ashton, Somerset, England

Mother's name is a giveaway, but I'm sure we'd find the Toombs-Fisher marriage ... Yup, 1909, Long Ashton district.


Just following all the trails. ;) Eliza Harris isn't Eliza Toombs in 1911.


Here's your Eliza's marriage, for ref.

Marriages Mar 1911
HARRIS Eliza A A Marylebone 1a 965
Parker Frederick J Marylebone 1a 965

Aha, you spaced. ;)

Could the Parker marriage really have been one of convenience, to give Eliza and her daughter the respectability of the husband's/father's surname?

Or a shotgun marriage, with the spouses not having any desire to cohabit afterward?

No they definitely went on to have 3 more children.Frederick died at Ypres in 1917 and Amy in the flu pandemic in 1918 and the 4 children (including Dorothy) were adopted.

No apologies needed for anything! Your info is wonderfully complete, formatting is just a helpful thing for checking back and forth to the opening post for info, when the whole tale is new to the reader.

Tell us what you know of Dorothy -- she is not your direct ancestor though I gather. Do you know her, or have you traced her, e.g. to see whom she named as father on her marriage cert?

Do we assume that Eliza married again, or in any event had another child, who is your father?

We have to stop crossing in the post. ;) I'll take a minute to look at your last, and maybe somebody else will join in!

We all have these mystery ancestors ...

The "single" on the 1911 census -- hmm, I was going to say possible enumerator error/assumption (sons with father, therefore single), but in 1911 householders filled out their own forms, if I've got it right.

(I'm a whiz at searching the 1911 by now, but since I don't have any need to look at any of the forms for myself at present, I haven't yet paid to see any of the actual images.)

Pondering ...

Dorothy Winifred Amy Parker 07.10.09
Rosina Winifred Parker 27.10.11
Gilbert Frederick Parker 17.11.13


My father'sbrother and sisters - my father :

John Percival Parker 31.10.15

They were all taken to an orphanage when Amy died and were later adopted but somehow all stayed in touch so yes I did know Dorothy

Just to recap what we know for sure.

Eliza Amelia Amy Harris who married Frederick John Parker in March 1911 is definitely your father's mother.

EAAH and FJP had four children in total, starting wtih Dorothy in - 1910, in Marylebone?

Is the mother's name Eliza Amelia Amy Harris on her children's birth certs?
And the father -- Frederick John or Frederick Robert on the children's birth certs?

I get the feeling "Amy" is a known-as name, short for Amelia.

What was Frederick's father's name, on the marriage cert?

I'm not finding him as Frederick Robert Parker in the 1911. Can you reproduce the household results? I imagine you checked that the father's name is the same as on the marriage cert, just getting up to speed here.

You don't suppose this is actually your Frederick in 1911, do you?

MILITARY PARKER FREDERICK J 1890 21 Overseas Royal Navy

Do you have Frederick's death record from the CWGC site?

http://www.cwgc.org/debt_of_honour.asp?menuid=14

I don't see an F Parker to match, and especially one commemorated at the Ypres memorial.

Urgh. This is the 1911 household:

PARKER ALFRED M 1864 47 St Marylebone London
PARKER R FREDRED M 1889 22 St Marylebone London
PARKER J ALFRED M 1888 23 St Marylebone London

You can see what it actually says, I gather. ;)

Is Alfred the father's name on the marriage cert, and the age matches with the groom's age on the cert?

Also, do father and son's occupations match?

This seems to be that household in 1901 -- all three had lost a couple of years by 1911:


Name: Fred Parker
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Alfred
Where born: Marylebone, London, England

Civil parish: Paddington

Alfred Parker 39
Alfred Parker 16
Fred Parker 15

Wow! You are truly amazing at the speed you can track all this.It has taken me 5 years!

I am absolutely 100% that the marriage cert is my Amy and Frederick's because of the address match where the children were born/census.
Also I have all the children's birth certs which say either Frederick or Frederick John.

The big surprise came when I finally found the marriage cert that Amy was Eliza Amelia Amy Harris.

The only birth cert that I found was for Frederick Robert 24th May 1886 nothing ever materialised for a Frederick John.
1911 census puts Frederick : with brother Alfred J Parker (23) living with Frederick R (22) and father Alfred says 3 children born 2 still alive so I have always presumed that possibly Frederick shared a birth cert with a sibling who died as I believe was done but get very confused .

Right, I'm just duplicating info.

You said at the outset:

"A few days later when the 1911 census was taken he is at same address as on marriage certificate"

So presumably the father's name was the same too, and this is them.

The age in the 1901 census matches the age on the marriage cert.

Crossing in the post again. Your reasoning is sound. ;)

The Parkers in 1891 in St Marylebone:

Alfred Parker 29
Eliza Parker 28
Alfred Parker 6
Frederick Parker 4

Again, age consistent with age at marriage. Daddy probably just wasn't the keeper of the birthdays in the family, and by the time it got to 1911 he wasn't an accurate timekeeper.

It was CWGC who got me started on this.
Frederick Parker was in Durham Light Infantry and died on 27.10.1917
at Ypres.
Son of Alfred Parker of 101 Granville Rd Kilburn
Husband of late Amy Parker

Everything on the Parker side of things adds up it is Amy who is so elusive.