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Charles William James born 1872. Parents Fredk and Elizabeth, Sibings Fredk and Emily. 1891 census shows living in Camberwell London. Married my grandmother Phoebe E Falkner 1892 in Camberwell then disappeared leaving a son, my uncle Fred. Any info welcome as I have hit a dead end. I can find no record of death, divorce etc... My Grandmother indicated once that he had gone to live in Birmingham Uk.

Just for reference:

1891:
Name: Charles W James
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Frederick W
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Southwark, London, England
Civil parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Anthony
Town: Peckham
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Peckham
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Frederick W James 42
Elizabeth James 42
Frederick A James 22
Charles W James 19
Emily James 15

1901:

Name: Frederick J James
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1893
Relation: Stepson
Mother's Name: Phebe E
Gender: Male
Where born: Wales
Civil parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Saviour
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Camberwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 29
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 186
Household Members:
Name Age
Allbery B King 28
Phebe E King 26
Frederick J James 8
Mora King 1

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Sep 1892 (>99%)
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FALKNER Phebe Elizabeth Camberwell 1d 1297
James Charles William Camberwell 1d 1297


What was his occupation on the marriage certificate please?

1911??
JAMES, Charles William Head Married M 39 1872 Traveller Carpets London VIEW
JAMES, Maude Wife Married
10 years F 38 1873 Dressmaker London VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
2473 Reference:
RG14PN2473 RG78PN83 RD27 SD2 ED14 SN139

Registration District:
Camberwell Sub District:
Camberwell South Enumeration District:
14 Parish:
Camberwell

Address:
85 E Dulwich Grove S E County:
London

1901??

Name: Charles W James
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Maud H
Gender: Male
Where born: Peckham, London, England
Civil parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Evangelist
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation: Furishings assistant

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Camberwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 41
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 193
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles W James 29
Maud H James 29

Name: Charles William James (occ Commercial clerk)
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1871
Spouse Name: Phebe Elizabeth Falkner
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 4 Jul 1892
Parish: St Giles, Camberwell
County: Middlesex
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Frederick William James (occ warehouseman)
Spouse Father Name: Edward Mitchell Falkner (occ builder)

Address Dulwich Village

That looks good Jonesey! Charles was a Carpet Warehouseman apprentice in 1891. Also there doesn't seem to be a marriage for him and Maude.

1911:
KING, Anberon Brougham Head Married M 38 1873 Traveller Middlesex London Bayswater VIEW
KING, Phoebe Elizabeth Wife Married
12 years F 36 1875 Surrey East Dulwich VIEW
FALKNER, Edward Mitchell Father In Law Married M 77 1834 Housepainter Retired Surrey Newington VIEW
FALKNER, Sarah Mother In Law Married
42 years F 79 1832 Shropshire Trewern VIEW
KING, Nora Daughter F 11 1900 School Surrey Wandsworth VIEW
KING, Florence May Daughter F 9 1902 School Surrey Peckham VIEW
KING, Marjorie Daughter F 8 1903 School Surrey Peckham VIEW
KING, Norman Son M 3 1908 Surrey East Dulwich VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
2451 Reference:
RG14PN2451 RG78PN82 RD27 SD1 ED1 SN296

Registration District:
Camberwell Sub District:
Dulwich Enumeration District:
1 Parish:
Camberwell

Address:
273 Friern Road E Dulwich County:
London

RG,

Nor one for Phoebe and Anberon King

Here's Auberon's birth if it's any help -

Births Jun 1873
KING Auberon Brougham Kensington 1a 22

And a somewhat belated marriage -

Marriages Dec 1935
James Phoebe E King Lambeth 1d 617
King Auberon B James Lambeth 1d 617

Well found Christine.

That might indicate that Charles had died by then, leaving Phoebe free to remarry.

I wonder if one of these deaths could have been the reason for the late marriage?

Deaths Dec 1932
James Charles W 59 Lincoln 7a 563
James Charles W 57 Lancaster 8e 813

Thanks Jonesey - and snap :)

Avril,

From what has been found it would appear likely that Charles William James and Phoebe did indeed split but that initially at least neither left the area. At that time divorce was really only an option for rich people due to the process and high costs involved. Accordingly many people are believed to have simply parted and set up homes with someone else. Women usually taking the surname of their new "Husband". Sometimes a bigamous marriage would take place with the person simply stating that they were either widowed or that they were a spinster or a bachelor. Unless their previous marriage partner subsequently objected these subterfuges went undetected in most cases.

The fact that at first glance no second marriage for Charles can be found would seem to indicate that he may have moved into a second partnership without remarrying. Christine has found a "Belated" 2nd marriage for Phoebe.

As far as the remark your grandmother may have made about Charles having left to go to live in Birmingham goes, this may or may not have been true. I think however it more likely that it was probably just another part of the subterfuge to cover the past.

There are many Charles W James deaths recorded which might have been his based upon the date of death and the reported age of the deceased at death. Some of these are in areas not far from where he appears to have been living in 1911 but of course he may have moved anywhere so without obtaining copies of all of the death certificates you are unlikely to discover which, if any, relate to your Charles.

Good luck with your future research.

???

Name: Charles James
Death Registration Month/Year: 1934
Age at death (estimated): 71
Registration district: Camberwell
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 594

I wonder if this is 'Maud'

Births Dec 1872 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DENNEY Maud Hannah Wandsworth 1d 559

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Births Mar 1873 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thomas Maud Helen Wandsworth 1d 632

Jonesey, do you access to the 1911 for Maud and Charles please?

Gin,

Yes via FMP.

Can you post it then please!

It is already on the thread (09:20) but here it is again:

1911??
JAMES, Charles William Head Married M 39 1872 Traveller Carpets London VIEW
JAMES, Maude Wife Married
10 years F 38 1873 Dressmaker London VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
2473 Reference:
RG14PN2473 RG78PN83 RD27 SD2 ED14 SN139

Registration District:
Camberwell Sub District:
Camberwell South Enumeration District:
14 Parish:
Camberwell

Address:
85 E Dulwich Grove S E County:
London