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Hi,
I'm trying to find more about my maternal great great grandfather Capt John Thomas Moses, born 7th Feb 1835 probably in Devon. His wife's surname was Budd. His son Capt James John Moses was born in Dartmouth in 1868 (11th March) and after many years at sea as a master mariner he ended up as harbour master of Callao in Peru. John Thomas I believe retired to Gloucester and captained the yacht of a wealthy Norwegian, going up and down the Gloucester-Sharpness canal and off on cruises. I can't find him on any censuses. I was told that his parents were John and Susan Moses, died respectively 1868 and 1878, whose tombstone is in St Petrock's churchyard in Dartmouth. But when I found them on the census there was no mention of a son John, so I wonder if my information was wrong (my Mum may have jumped to conclusions, or been told by someone else.) Alternatively perhaps we were given the wrong name. At some point the family moved to Cardiff after the new docks opened, and James John met and married Elizabeth Kelly Glover from Appledore, Devon whose family were boat-builders and had also moved to Cardiff. They married in Roath in 1892 and my grandmother Lizzie Alberta (Bertie) and her sister Mary Olive (Pollie) were born there in 1894 and 1896. Any information on John Thomas and who his parents were would be most welcome!
cheers, Linda

Are you sure of James John's birthplace? This looks like him:
1871 census
South town, St. Petrox, Dartmouth, Devon
Mary Moses, wife, 25, mariner's wife dressmaker
*James John, son, 4
Rebecca L., dau, 2
All born Cardiff, Wales.

Could this be John Thomas' marriage?
John T. Moses and Mary Budd, June quarter 1866, Cardiff. (11a 333)

Your grandmother, known as Albertina and her sister Polly?
1901 census
19 Moira Terrace, St. Mary, Cardiff, Glamorganshire
Thomas Jackson, head, married, 65, stationary engine driver, born Liverpool
Joseph, son, single, 23, telephone wire man
Matilda, dau, single, 21
Prudence Glover, dau, 4
*Albertina Moses, niece, 6
*Polly Moses, niece, 4
All born Cardiff except head Thomas.
Don't know whose daughter Prudence Glover is? Should be daughter of the head but he's 65.

This looks like it could be John Thomas in 1881 but no son James John. And where did Reuben come from?
1881 census
Above Town, St. Petrox, Dartmouth
John T. Moses, head, 38, mariner, born Dartmouth
Mary, wife, 36, born Cardiff
Reuben, son, 12, born Cardiff
Mary E., dau, 8, born Dartmouth
John T., son, 4, born Dartmouth
Edgar, son, 7 days, born Dartmouth

All things point to John Thomas being born 1843 and not 1835.
1851 census
Bearscove, St. Petrox, Dartsmouth, Devonshire
John Moses, head, 54, pilot, born Devon, Brixham
Susan, wife, 50, born Devon, Churston
James, son, 18, pilot's assistant
Eliza, dau, 13
Charles, son, 11
*John, son, 8
George, lodger, 1, says grandson in occupation column
Children all born Dartmouth.

1841 census
Bearscove, St. Petrox, Dartmouth, Devon
John Moses, 40, pilot
Susan, 35
William, 14
Susan, 16
James, 8
Eliza, 4
Charles, 1
All born in county.

from the International Genealogical Index on www.familysearch.org


It is an EXTRACTED record taken from the parish record.


JAMES JOHN MOSES Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 19 DEC 1867 Saint Mary, Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales

Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: JOHN THOMAS MOSES Family
Mother: MARY

---
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

No source document or additional information exists.

---
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C057911 1843 - 1872 0104861 Film 0883779 Film

C057911 1872 - 1877 0104862 Film NONE



sylvia

1871 Census (repeating what was posted earlier, but with information from the image)

Name: James John Moses
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Cardiff, Wales
Civil Parish: St Petrox
Town: Dartmouth
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Totnes
Sub registration district: Dartmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household schedule number: 179
Household Members: Name Age
James John Moses 4
Mary Moses 25 b.ca 1846, Cardiff, Wales
Rebecca S Moses 2 <<<<<<< REUBEN, b.ca 1869, Cardiff, SON




so Rebecca is a mistranscription by ancestry of Reuben!

- - - -

from IGI on family search:-

REUBEN SIMPSON MOSES Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 18 APR 1869 Saint Mary, Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales

Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: JOHN THOMAS MOSES Family
Mother: MARY

---
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

No source document or additional information exists.

---
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C057911 1843 - 1872 0104861 Film 0883779 Film

C057911 1872 - 1877 0104862 Film NONE





sylvia

1891 Census ?????

Name: John T Moses
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Dartmouth, Devon, England

Civil Parish: Tuffley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
Town: Tuffley
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Registration district: Gloucester
Sub registration district: South Hamlet
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Johns 24 Boarder, Mariner
Claude E Moses 12
Effie E Moses 6
France R Moses 3
John T Moses 48 Marfiner
John T Moses 14
Mary Moses 46 b.ca 1845, Cardiff, Gloucestershire (says Glamorgan on image!!)
Mary E B Moses 18
Richard G Moses 11/12

Address:- 3 Bristol Villas, Tuffley, Gloucestershire


sylvia

????????? Reuben in 1891

1891 Census

Name: Rheuben Moses
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Cardiff, Wales

Civil Parish: St Petrox
Ecclesiastical parish: St Petrox
Town: Dartmouth
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Registration district: Totnes
Sub registration district: Dartmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Browse 23
Elsie P Clarke 7
Walter R Elliott 30
Rheuben Moses 22 Grocers Assistant
Alice Shillabear 76
Ellen Witcher 47
Richard Witcher 49




sylvia

Wow! Thank you both so much. I need to take time to look at all this and work things out. Some of the information seems to be the opposite of what I was told eg James John going from Cardiff to Dartmouth and not the other way round - although as John Thomas was born in Dartmouth it looks like a case of going back there. Maybe there was a lot of toing and froing! And I had no idea that my grandmother and her sister lived with an uncle and aunt - and I've never heard of the Jacksons! I need to talk to my mother's cousin Tony, son of Polly and see if he knows anything about all this. He's the only one left! I've got lots of photos of James John at all different ages, some taken in Cardiff and some in Dartmouth. I've scanned them onto the computer so if either of you would like to see them let me have your email addresses and I'll send them.
Thank you again for all this brilliant info. Watch this space!
cheers, Linda

The Jackson family in 1891:
25 Coverry? St., Roath, Cardiff
Thomas Jackson, head, 56, stationary engine driver, born Liverpool
Elizabeth, wife, 50, born Cheshire, (Something?) Port
Jane E., dau, 24, dressmaker
Matilda, dau, 11
Thomas G., son, 16, general labourer
Joseph E., son, 13, port messenger
Thomas Glover, boarder, 23, testman?, born Devon, Appledore
William Thursbow?, boarder, 21, house carpenter, born London, Hammersmith
Children all born Cardiff.

Elizabeth Kelly Glover in 1891?
73 Habershon St., Roath, Cardiff
Herbert C. Glover, head, 50, master mariner, born Devon, Appledore
Prudence, wife, 45, dress maker, born Devon, Swimbridge
*Elizabeth K., dau, 24, grocer, born Appledore
Herbert E., son, 11, born Cardiff
Alexander Pyle, boarder, 19, assistant school teacher, born Appledore

Free BMD:
Herbert Ebenezer Glover married Prudence Webber, Sep. Q 1876, Cardiff. (11a 447)
Hmm! daughter Elizabeth K was born 1867, Appledore. Previous marriage of Herbert?

Elizabeth K. in 1871?
Insha? St., (Royal George). Northam, Appledore, Devon
William Kelly, head, 50, merchant& innkeeper, born Appledore
Mary A., wife, 54
William, son, 20, blacksmith
Sarah N.S., dau, 18, scholar
Harriet, dau, 12, scholar
*Elizabeth Glover, grandau, 5
Plus a servant and a lodger.
All others born Appledore.

Free BMD:
Elizabeth K_lly Glover born Dec. Q 1865, Bideford, Devon. (5b 506)

Can't find marriage of Herbert Glover and a Kelly though.

Herbert Ebenezer Glover married in 1863 in Swansea but no female names on page. (Can't be another guy with that handle!)

The volume & page numbers for Herbert Ebenezer were 11a 886. I've found a Maria Pile Kelly same date, same place but numbers 11a 880.
Just checked the original for Herbert Ebenezer and I believe it's 11a 880.

1861 census
Royal george, Northam, Appledore, Devon
William Kelly, head, 40, innkeeper
Mary Ann, wife, 44
*Maria Pile Kelly, dau, 18, barmaid
Sarah A. Perry, dau-in-law, 14
Elizabeth Kelly, dau, 14
Hellin Jane Perry, dau-in-law, 11
William Kelly, son, 10
Sarah Prise Sharsall Kelly, dau, 8
Richard Kelly, son, 4
Harriet Kelly, dau, 2

This is a case of dau-in-law meaning stepdaughter and I assume that both parents must have been previously married.

I can't seem to tear myself away from this family but really must go now!
Margaret