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Shame they didn't find him.
I've just been looking up the streets named in the censuses - both Coveny Street and Habershon Street are listed in the census as Roath, Cardiff. Roath is quite a posh area. But the roads, which actually join each other, are really in Splott, a much less salubrious area nearer to the docks! Anyway, we'll go and have a look one day and take some photos. I'm still curious as to where the Jacksons fit in.

Oh what a treasure those letters are! How wonderful of your grandmother to preserve them. Lucky you!
Margaret
No, son & bride didn't find gt. grandad's grave.

Did they find him?

I've just looked up the letters that my grandmother (ever organised!) put in an envelope labelled "mother's mother's letter and others from mother and Uncle Tom to their father 1875-1876."
2 are from Lizzie ie Lizzie Moses nee Glover ie mother, one with the address 4 Alpha Place, Appledore and the other from the Royal George Hotel, West Appledore - so that ties in with the 1861 census showing them at the Royal George. This letter, dated 27th June 1876, says "My dear Father, I now begin to write a letter to you, which I ought to have done before, but I did not know where to write, as Aunt Lizzie is in London, where Uncle arrived nearly three weeks ago, and I am staying with Grandma, until she returns. I expect he will sail about the middle of July, for Australia again. I hope this will find you and Grandpa quite well. I suppose the vessell will come home from Flamborough; if so I shall have the pleasure of seeing you very soon. It is nearly twelve months ago since I saw you, & I hope you have had a very pleasant voyage. I have not heard from Katie for some time but she owes me a letter. Grandpa, Grandma, and all the family join with me in fondest love to you, and hoping to hear from you soon. Believe me to remain, My dear Father, your loving child Lizzie." The other letter, dated June 16th, says "My dear Father, With very much pleasure I now begin my letter to you knowingyou will be pleased to receive it. I shall be very glad to have one from you to say you have arrived safely. Uncle William Henry arrived in New Zealand on May 22nd. Dear Father, I hope you are quite well and that you had a pleasant voyage out. I dare say it will be a long time before we have a letter from you. We shall be so pleased to get it. We had quite a grand day here on the 26 of May, the gas was lighted and there was a large public tea held in a field at Water town and in the evening there was music and dancing the gas looks so pretty in the shop windows and a number of people are having it in their houses. I hope when you come home you will bring dear little Tom to see us we shall all be pleased to see him and you also. Granda Grandma and Aunt Lizzie send their kind love and hope you are quite well. Our school is going to break up at the end of this week, and if the weather is fine Sunday we are all going to the Westward Ho to tea. We have had very wet weather here lately but I hope it will soon change. Now dear Father I must conclude with fond love, Your affectionate child Lizzie." Interesting that Auntie Pollie thought that Lizzie lived with an Aunt Hetty after her mother died, but it appears to be Auntie Lizzie. However, the slightly damaged letter from Tom to "Dear Da" on Nov 18th 1875 refers to Aunt Hetty and says "please to bring me and aunt hetty something nice from Callao." So the family were all sailing to Callao long before my mum was born there in 1923! There is also a newspaper cutting with the marriage of James John, eldest son of Captain J.T.Moses of Dartmouth, to Elizabeth Kelly, only daughter of Captain H.E.Glover of Roath, Cardff. And a fragment of a letter saying "With all my love & best wishes for a bright & happy New Year to my darling wife and baby. From your ever loving husband Jim. Kisses by thousands to you both. God bless you." Could Jim be James John I wonder? In which case "baby" would be my grandmother! And God bless her for keeping things and labelling them!

That sounds like fun, a pub crawl in Appledore. A bit nicer than the hunt I sent my son and his bride on when they were honeymooning in England. I sent them to a cemetery to look for my gt. grandfather. A cold rainy day in Yorkshire, don't think my daughter-in-law has ever forgiven me!

My daughter and her boyfriend are spending a week in Appledore at half term so I'll send them on a hunt for the pubs and anything else than can find while they're there! One branch of the Kelly/Glover family ended up as wine merchants in Neath - continuing from the merchant/innkeeper tradition! I ought to look them up and see who knows what about that branch - I've never met them but my late mother kept in touch until the 1980s I think.

No not related, Linda, just like doing look-ups and this one has been particularly interesting.
Margaret

How does Maria Pile become Mary Ann? Mind you, Pollie obviously wasn't sure she'd remembered the name right. I've emailed Pollie's son Tony to see if he can shed any light on any of this. If she was 8 in 1851 she would have been 30 or 31 when she died, which I suppose isn't too far from Pollie's "about 25".

Are you related somewhere, or just interested? Very grateful, whichever!

This seems to be Maria Pile Kelly, although it's transcribed Nile, the original looks like Pile. (Some people have handwriting as bad as mine!)
1851 census
High St., King's Head Inn, Northam, Devon
John Kelly, head, 62, innkeeper
Sarah, wife, 58
Maria Pile Kelly, grandau, 8, scholar
All born Northam.

Hi, yes I think there are 2 marriages for Herbert Ebenezer as I had Mary Ann Kelly as the mother of Elizabeth Kelly Glover, but no information about her. I have some memories that my great aunt Pollie Moses (Hawkey) wrote back in the 1980s, but as she used "she" and "he" rather a lot it's not always clear who she was referring to! She refers to her mother (Elizabeth Kelly, known as Lizzie) being born in Appledore, that Lizzie's father was Herbert Ebenezer and had siblings including Lavinia Emmie (not sure if one person or two!), Georgina and John. Their father owned a fleet of sailing vessels. She then says that Herbert Ebenezer was married to ....Kelly and that "she" (Lizzie or Lizzie's mother ....Kelly?) was one of 6 children of the first wife of HE senior. But she then says that he "was a widower and married her - he, having 6 children by his first marriage. Hence there were 12 children...This marriage produced 2 more children - my Auntie Sarah and her sister Emmy [the elder of the 2]." Sarah married a Harry.

In a second account Pollie says that her mother was the eldest child of Herbert and Mary Ann? Glover and that there were 2 more children, Tom and then a baby who was stillborn. Mary Ann died aged about 25 when Lizzie was 6. Lizzie went to live with Auntie Hetty, one of her father's sisters. Tom went to live with their grandparents. Pollie then refers to the grandfather having 6 children and then marrying a widow with 6 children after his wife died. They then had Emma and Sarah. So this second account is clearer than the first! Presumably the widow was Prudence, so was Webber her maiden name or the name of her first husband? It's beginning to make sense at last!
cheers, Linda

1861 census
Royal george, Northam, Appledore, Devon
William Kelly, head, 40, innkeeper
Mary Ann, wife, 44
*Maria Pile Kelly, dau, 18, barmaid
Sarah A. Perry, dau-in-law, 14
Elizabeth Kelly, dau, 14
Hellin Jane Perry, dau-in-law, 11
William Kelly, son, 10
Sarah Prise Sharsall Kelly, dau, 8
Richard Kelly, son, 4
Harriet Kelly, dau, 2

This is a case of dau-in-law meaning stepdaughter and I assume that both parents must have been previously married.

I can't seem to tear myself away from this family but really must go now!
Margaret

The volume & page numbers for Herbert Ebenezer were 11a 886. I've found a Maria Pile Kelly same date, same place but numbers 11a 880.
Just checked the original for Herbert Ebenezer and I believe it's 11a 880.

Herbert Ebenezer Glover married in 1863 in Swansea but no female names on page. (Can't be another guy with that handle!)

Free BMD:
Elizabeth K_lly Glover born Dec. Q 1865, Bideford, Devon. (5b 506)

Can't find marriage of Herbert Glover and a Kelly though.

Elizabeth K. in 1871?
Insha? St., (Royal George). Northam, Appledore, Devon
William Kelly, head, 50, merchant& innkeeper, born Appledore
Mary A., wife, 54
William, son, 20, blacksmith
Sarah N.S., dau, 18, scholar
Harriet, dau, 12, scholar
*Elizabeth Glover, grandau, 5
Plus a servant and a lodger.
All others born Appledore.

Free BMD:
Herbert Ebenezer Glover married Prudence Webber, Sep. Q 1876, Cardiff. (11a 447)
Hmm! daughter Elizabeth K was born 1867, Appledore. Previous marriage of Herbert?

Elizabeth Kelly Glover in 1891?
73 Habershon St., Roath, Cardiff
Herbert C. Glover, head, 50, master mariner, born Devon, Appledore
Prudence, wife, 45, dress maker, born Devon, Swimbridge
*Elizabeth K., dau, 24, grocer, born Appledore
Herbert E., son, 11, born Cardiff
Alexander Pyle, boarder, 19, assistant school teacher, born Appledore

The Jackson family in 1891:
25 Coverry? St., Roath, Cardiff
Thomas Jackson, head, 56, stationary engine driver, born Liverpool
Elizabeth, wife, 50, born Cheshire, (Something?) Port
Jane E., dau, 24, dressmaker
Matilda, dau, 11
Thomas G., son, 16, general labourer
Joseph E., son, 13, port messenger
Thomas Glover, boarder, 23, testman?, born Devon, Appledore
William Thursbow?, boarder, 21, house carpenter, born London, Hammersmith
Children all born Cardiff.

Wow! Thank you both so much. I need to take time to look at all this and work things out. Some of the information seems to be the opposite of what I was told eg James John going from Cardiff to Dartmouth and not the other way round - although as John Thomas was born in Dartmouth it looks like a case of going back there. Maybe there was a lot of toing and froing! And I had no idea that my grandmother and her sister lived with an uncle and aunt - and I've never heard of the Jacksons! I need to talk to my mother's cousin Tony, son of Polly and see if he knows anything about all this. He's the only one left! I've got lots of photos of James John at all different ages, some taken in Cardiff and some in Dartmouth. I've scanned them onto the computer so if either of you would like to see them let me have your email addresses and I'll send them.
Thank you again for all this brilliant info. Watch this space!
cheers, Linda

????????? Reuben in 1891

1891 Census

Name: Rheuben Moses
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Cardiff, Wales

Civil Parish: St Petrox
Ecclesiastical parish: St Petrox
Town: Dartmouth
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Registration district: Totnes
Sub registration district: Dartmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Browse 23
Elsie P Clarke 7
Walter R Elliott 30
Rheuben Moses 22 Grocers Assistant
Alice Shillabear 76
Ellen Witcher 47
Richard Witcher 49




sylvia

1891 Census ?????

Name: John T Moses
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Dartmouth, Devon, England

Civil Parish: Tuffley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
Town: Tuffley
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Registration district: Gloucester
Sub registration district: South Hamlet
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Johns 24 Boarder, Mariner
Claude E Moses 12
Effie E Moses 6
France R Moses 3
John T Moses 48 Marfiner
John T Moses 14
Mary Moses 46 b.ca 1845, Cardiff, Gloucestershire (says Glamorgan on image!!)
Mary E B Moses 18
Richard G Moses 11/12

Address:- 3 Bristol Villas, Tuffley, Gloucestershire


sylvia