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I seem to have a woman with skeletons lol and I am not sure what part of her history is truth or lie.... so am throwing it out there in the hope someone might help me narrow it down.

I have an AGNES MAUD MURRAY... many in the family think her name was Brown but on her marriage certificate in Australia years later she lists it as MURRAY. She lists her father as Charles Edward MURRAY (painter) and mother as Mary CLARE.

Family recollections say she was married to a Mr Stanton to whom she had one child. (Named either Berty or William) When pregnant with her second she escaped his violence and alcohol and ran off by ship to South Africa. On the ship she met a Harold Raymond HANKS( engineer). Family believes he was maybe born in Denmark but on a German passport. She gave birth to 2nd son... then subsequently to 3 girls to Harold all in South Africa where we think Harry managed a gold mine.

They then followed 2nd son to Australia and eventually married in Victoria 27/3/1915. This is where we see her surname listed as MURRAY and not Brown. Not sure if she divorced STANTON.

She died in 1934 in Western Australia.

Family had been told varying stories and would love to somehow delve and find the facts. Big ask I know but any sleuths out there... there is a challenge.

Just to check, when she went to South Africa, was she Agnes Stanton? do you know when she went to South Africa? also do you know what year she was born? and when her children were born?

Alison.

OK.... here is what I have, some are estimations.

Agnes Maud..... born c 1873 d 1934(confirmed)
she had a daughter:

Muriel Edith Florence... born in Jeppestown johannesburg confirmed birth date 26/8/1899

Muriel was the fifth child, 2 boys born to STANTON then 2 girls born to HANKS in South Africa before Muriel ..so that is how we are estimating Agnes' birth year.

Family recollections say Agnes was born in GLASGOW Lanarkshire Scotland, but not confirmed.

Her later Marriage to Hanks in Australia lists her birthplace as here in Australia but we know thats not the case so am assuming she falsified some details when marrying. Maybe she hadnt divorced Stanton?

Family also says she was married to STANTON and ran away.
Looking at the estimations one would summize she left for South Africa between 1889 and 1894? Was she destined for South Africa (they left the ship in Cape Town) or somewhere beyond? Who knows.... did ships pass through there on their way to other destinations?

One of her sons (most likely first born) William later changed his name to William Hanks, so am also assuming he was therefore Stanton.

So many unanswered questions. Not sure if that helps any.

Am awaiting copy of her death certificate. On her marriage details it seems odd that her fathers name Charles Edward.... is the same as her husbands' fathers name Charles Edward.... either another falsehood or an error in transcription. Age on that certificate is listed as 18 which is obviously also a lie since by then she had had 5 children.

As I said, hard to tell fact from fiction so not expecting definate answers but I do thank you for looking. As a newbie to this was just hoping somehting in there was enough to get to the facts. :-)

marriages from scotlandspeople
Just the 4 from 1855 to 1933
one Agnes Brown in glasgow to note!


1 1876 STANTON FREDERICK WARDROP AGNES RICCARTON /AYR 611/00 0037 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER

2 1922 STANTON GERALD HOLLIS BRADFORD AGNES L
DUNCAN CARLUKE /LANARK 629/00 0043 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER

3 1886 STANTON JOHN BROWN AGNES CALTON GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/04 0146 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER

4 1920 STANTON WILLIAM T SWEENIE AGNES BONHILL /DUNBARTON 493/00 0092

On the marriage cert of Agnes Brown it says shes 20
father william ,cotton weaver
and mother mary{deceased}maiden surname,,Kerr

John Stanton is a ,,swing machine fitter
and Agnes is a ,power loom weaver.

1891 Scotland Census
Name: Charles Murray
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relationship: Son-in-law
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 644/13
Registration district: Tradeston
Civil Parish: Glasgow Govan
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 51 Dale St
Occupation: Painter
ED: 6
Household schedule number: 44
Line: 5
Roll: CSSCT1891_294
Household Members: Name Age
James Mack 53
Marion Mack 53
Charles Murray 36
Charles Murray 7
Jane Murray 4


Could this be Charles (father)?

the birth of a child to Stanton and brown

14 1886 STANTON WILLIAM JOHN M CALTON GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/04 0691 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER


the only only male birth up till 1890

of the name william/bertie

None of the stantons showing on scottish census after the the marriage of john and agnes and the birth of willam in 1886 that I can see

Another boy
may be same parents
but no sign of him on census either


2 1887 STANTON MICHAEL M CALTON GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/04 0570

then a 10 year gap for more stanton births in the same district

Vivienne...

1886 STANTON JOHN BROWN AGNES CALTON GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/04 0146 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER

This would make Agnes Brown to be born say 1866.... so if she married Harry Hanks in Australia in 1915 and listed her age as18, would be glaringly obvious she wasnt since she was 49! lol so am discounting this one.

I am now so confused about her real name ...

Somewhere else she used the name Agnes Telfar Brown but an old Aunt said TELFAR was her sister's married name. DOnt know any more than that.

We dont know how much she made up to protect herself.

You are SO kind to help! William and Bertie by all accounts were both STANTONS sons, and only 1 was born before she left the country so would explain why they didnt appear on the census' after that. Am going to keep all this info and try to piece together more. Hopefully some more certificates from Australia will give me birth years.

I do appreciate all your help.... this is a wonderful place for people lost like me!

So do you know the Telfar sisters first name?

The age on her death cert will be interesting!
Do come and post it on here when you have it please
I for one would love to know what it says on it

NO sorry only that her married surname was Telfar.

LOL you must love a mystery as much as me!

And even at 42 if she was born about 1873 it must have been obvious she wasnt 18!
Maybe it was written by mistake.
and yes,nothing like a good mystery to make your brain keep working

For anyone who is interested!
viv

To bring all the relevant details to the fore.

I was tearing my hair out trying to find details of an Agnes Maud Murray who occasionally called herself Brown. I had posted before but may have confused so am starting again.

After much digging I thought I may have solved the puzzle to a certain degree. It seems her maiden name was indeed MURRAY and she married a Charles BROWN, then went on to marry or partner a John Stanton with whom she had 2 children before leaving him to go to Australia (via South Africa)

I have found this record for marriage to BROWN
Marriages Dec 1894
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brown Charles Gateshead 10a 1273
Murray Agnes Gateshead 10a 1273

Then these for the 2 children to STANTON not sure if Agnes was the mother

1886 STANTON WILLIAM JOHN M CALTON GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/04 0691
1887 STANTON MICHAEL M CALTON GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/04 0570\

And this
1886 STANTON JOHN BROWN AGNES CALTON GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/04 0146

But when you put this all together the dates are screwed so am unsure if I am on the right track. Can anyone with Scotland records help please I am going dizzy trying to sort it out. lol

When she eventually got married in Australia in 1915 she listed her parents as Charles Edward MURRAY and Mary CLARE (someone at some stage wrote these name as Mary KERR And William MURRAY so that may be a possibility) but most details on the marriage certicate seem to be false so not sure about parentage.

Viv just can't keep a mystery to herself. ;)

I think I say: let's see what the death cert says. Where in Australia is all this happening? (Answering my question: Victoria and then Western Australia?)

I wonder whether "18" is a misreading somewhere of "48"?

I did some searches of the SA archives but nothing relevant re Hanks came up.

http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300dl

Do we have the death cert details?
viv

No Viv, my relative still hasnt forwarded her death certificate so as soon as Easter is over I will order and pay for it from Western Australia. I do hope it has some some accuracies on it as I think Agnes lied so much to cover her past that the details on that may not be truthful either. Especially since it was away from her birth country, but lets hope it gives something concrete.
Will post as soon as I get it. :-)