Find Ancestors

Hello Everyone

Hope I am on the right board, let me know if I'm not.

I have an Elizabeth U Paget birth registered in JFM quarter 1917. A family member sent away for the certificate and it gives the childs name as Elizabeth Unsworth (we seem to think that is the name of the father) no details whatsoever on the birth certificate regarding the father. Her date of birth was 25-11-1916 in Heywood at a home address.

Unfortunately we cannot find a death for an Elizabeth U Paget or an Elizabeth Unsworth, we know that her brother George born in 1915 always thought he was an only child, we have a Joseph Paget being born and died in 1914 this is a brother of George and Elizabeth as Elizabeth is obviously illegitamate because the mothers husband was off fighting overseas there is no way he was the father and the info on the birth certificate proves it. When he returned from the war he left her.
She never remarried.

Can anyone double check for me and see if they can find a record of a possible death, otherwise we will have to assume the child was adopted either by a family member or close friends who were childless. If she was adopted leagally can anyone tell me where I might find the records, she was born at home in Heywood.

Would appreciate any info and your thoughts.

Taylor

PS There is a death for an Elizabeth Unsworth in Warrington JFM quater of 1917 but it has her age as 1yr old. Could the age be a mistake and is meant to be 1 month.

Best board in the world for it -- as long as this is the only one here you've posted it on! (If you have put it on others like Surname Info or such, you should delete them.)

It is very very likely that the father's surname was Unsworth, unless you know of some other occurrence of that name in the mother's family. It was quite common practice to give a child of unmarried parents who was registered in the mother's surname the father's surname as a middle. An aunt of my mum born in 1890 is an example. There are lots.

If the father were present for registration, the child could have been registered in his name, or he could have been named as father. It sounds likely that he was at the front.

There isn't another good match for the Elizabeth Unsworth who died in 1917, in birth records. An Elizabeth Unsworth was born in Warrington in Dec Q 1917, but of course that is after the death.

I'd certainly order that death certificate. It being an infant, I believe it would very likely name the parent; if not, the name of the informant could provide some info.

The age is just a calculation, and may have resulted from the fact that she was born in 1916 and died in 1917.

Hold on a minute.

Births Mar 1917
Paget Elizabeth U (Ribchester) Bury 8c 818


Ribchester is the mother's birth surname. Was the mother married to Paget?

The presumption of legitimacy would have required that the child be registered as Paget, if so and if the husband was living.


Marriages Jun 1912
Paget George Ribchester Bolton 8c 759
Ribchester Agnes Paget Bolton 8c 759


Births Jun 1914
Paget Joseph Ribchester Bolton 8c 687
Births Jun 1915
PAGET George Ribchester Bolton 8c 638
Births Mar 1917
Paget Elizabeth U Ribchester Bury 8c 818


Was George killed in WWI? I don't see a record at the CWGC site that is obviously his death, if so.

Janey thanks

On the birth certificate, under Childs name is Elizabeth Unsworth, we know that she was registered as Elizabeth U Paget but now we know what the U stood for. And that she was an illegitamate child and George was not the father.

Yes all the info you have found regarding the family is correct, George was not killed in WW1 but when he came home he left Agnes and used to live in the Street behind, neither he nor she ever remarried however the sons of George who was born in 1915 were never allowed to visit their grandfather who as I say lived in the next street. We know nothing further than that.

The family have only just become aware of Elizabeth and they say as far as George knew he was an only child.

Unfortunately until the Census records are available we will have to be supposing, Elizabeth was born at the home of Georges parents, so Agnes went there to give birth, we just want to know what happened to the child. We are strongly leaning to the child being adopted by Georges parents or a close family relative or friend, without the use of legal channels, as we know was often done in those days. She may show up on the 1921 Census if it turns out she was not the one who died in JFM 1917 age one or one month, but your explanation seems to fit with the difference between the years.

We may invest as you suggest in getting that death certificate, we are trying to get a bit more help before we go down that path. Although I am beginning to wonder why.

Taylor

The name on the birth cert is the name. She was registered in that name, including the "Unsworth" -- it's just that after 1911 no middle names were recorded in the *index*, initials only.

I did mean to wonder about the child having been given away / adopted out. Seems like a good possibility.

I have to run, will check back tomorrow!

Hi Janey

Not quite sure I'm understanding but in that 2nd column the name is Elizabeth Unsworth I am assuming that they are the first and middle names. As there is nothing in the details of the father columns only the mothers Agnes Paget then her name is Elizabeth Unsworth Paget, hence Elizabeth U Paget on the GRO and UKBMD record. Am I correct.

As I couldn't find any deaths for Elizabeth U Paget I tried Elizabeth Unsworth and came up with the death in JFM 1917, your explanation of the age at death of 1 year instead of perhaps one month makes sense to me.

I also tried to find a marriage for an Elizabeth U and only one came up that seemed to match but it was Elizabeth U Brown from memory I will have to check. I have just assumed that the adoptive parents if it turned out to be case that she was adopted were named Brown???

Taylor

There was effectively no legal adoption before 1927 and, although she was a minor then (under 21), and so could be adopted, I very much doubt that they'ld bother.
My brother acquired a 10 y.o. step daughter, and never bothered to adopt her for 7 y. He only did it then so she could get a British passport. Her natural dad wasn't British so that meant, at that time, she wasn't either, and my bro had had to wait for an hour while she cleared immigration after a family vacation.


Births Jun 1914 (>99%)
Paget Joseph Ribchester Bolton 8c 687
Deaths Sep 1914 (>99%)
PAGET Joseph 0 Bolton 8c 393
[death rego'ed in Farnworth subdistrict]

Births Jun 1915 (>99%)
PAGET George Ribchester Bolton 8c 638

Births Mar 1917 (>99%)
Paget Elizabeth U Ribchester Bury
[birth rego'ed in Heywood subdistrict]


Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1912[q2]
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
PAGET George RIBCHESTER Agnes Bolton Register Office or Registrar Attended Bolton RO/173/77
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/

I suppose you've got this earlier stuff, but anyways:

1911
HOUSEHOLD PAGET ELIZABETH F 1857 54 Bury Lancashire wife
HOUSEHOLD PAGET GEORGE M 1886 25 Bury Lancashire son pob=Stoke
HOUSEHOLD PAGET JABER GS M 1889 22 Bury Lancashire son pob=Stoke
HOUSEHOLD PAGET ANNIE F 1892 19 Bury Lancashire daughter pob=Stoke
HOUSEHOLD PAGET FRED M 1895 16 Bury Lancashire son
[rd462]

HOUSEHOLD JACKSON THOMAS M 1877 34 Bolton Lancashire head
HOUSEHOLD JACKSON HANNAHH F 1876 35 Bolton Lancashire wife
HOUSEHOLD RIBCHESTER ANGES F 1890 21 Bolton Lancashire boarder pob=Bolton
[rd461]

Births Jun 1886 (>99%)
PAGET George Stoke T 6b 290

Births Jun 1889 (>99%)
Paget Jabez Stoke T. 6b 261

Births Sep 1892 (>99%)
Paget Hannah Stoke T. 6b 265

Births Sep 1894 (>99%)
PAGET Frederick James Burton On Trent 6b 427
Births Mar 1895 (>99%)
Paget Fred Bury 8c 691

??
Births Mar 1897 (>99%)
Paget Arthur Stoke T. 6b 262


Births Sep 1890 (>99%)
Ribchester Agnes Bolton 8c 374


1891
John Ritchester abt 1864 city, Lancashire, England head
Annie Ritchester abt 1866 city, Wales wife
Agnes Ritchester abt 1890 Bolton, Lancashire, England daughter
[rg12/3101/132/? Registration Sub-District 3A Halliwell Civil Parish, Township or Place: Halliwell Registration District 461.BOLTON]

Maybe:
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1888
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
RIBCHESTER John AARON Annie Bolton Register Office or Registrar Attended Bolton RO/93/4


1891
Joseph Pagett name abt 1860 city, Shropshire, England head
Elizabeth Pagett name abt 1859 city, Shropshire, England wife
Samuel Pagett name,name abt 1877 city, Shropshire, England son
Louisa Pagett name,name abt 1884 city, Shropshire, England daughter
George Pagett name,name abt 1887 city, Staffordshire, England son
Jabez Pagett name,name abt 1890 city, Staffordshire, England son
[rg12/2178/73/? Registration Sub-District 4A Fenton Civil Parish, Township or Place: Stoke upon Trent (3)(4)(8): Fenton]

Births Sep 1883 (>99%)
PAGETT Louisa Wellington,Sh. 6a 740

Thanks mgnv

I didn't have the 1911 Census results, although I had tried a search, but, I am not signed up, thankyou very very much.

I was a little hesitant about the Census records I had found in relation to the Paget family, but you have come up with the same as me, so I feel a lot better about that.

All your other information is correct, you are amazing.

I have been trying everything I know how to, to find a birth for the Elizabeth Unsworth who died in Warrington JFM 1917, there is absolutely no record of one so I think this is probably our Elizabeth U Paget. Hopefully we can make contact with someone on the Paget side who may know something.

Thankyou so much for your input, it is really appreciated.

Taylor

Afternoon All, been on the very same trail from the Paget perspective and am leaning towards the belief of Taylor29. Over the last few days I have been looking along the lines of Jabez, Samuel and Frederick Paget ( George snrs brothers ) to see if I could trace the pedigree but to no avail. There seems to be a hint of trace towards Fylde in Lancashire which I will exhaust and hopefully report back.
Happy hunting.
Gavin Paget

Didn't know you were looking for the ancestors too. ;)

Not sure whether there's confusion on one point. The name on the birth certificate: Dorothy Unsworth.

The surname was not ordinarily entered as part of the child's name when the birth was registered. For a child of married parents, it would go like this:

child: Mary Jane
father: John James Jones
mother: Mary Martha Jones formerly Martin

The child's surname was automatically Jones.

for a child of unmarried parents where the father was not named, it would go:

child: Mary Jane
mother: Mary Martha Martin

and the child would be Mary Jane Martin. This is the situation here for Dorothy Unsworth Paget.

I believe that if the father of a child of unmarried parents was named on the certificate (i.e. if the father was present at the registration and consented), it would go:

child: Mary Jane
father: John James Jones
mother: Mary Martha Martin

and the child would automatically be Mary Jane Jones.

However, once the registration was done, the child's parents could call it what they liked. If Mary Martin was cohabiting with John Jones (or even if she wasn't) and using his surname in the community, for instance, then even if Mary Jane had been registered without a father, she would likely be known as Mary Jane Jones rather than Martin. She might even marry as Jones, and name John Jones as her father. Even if he wasn't.

In your case, Agnes Ribchester Paget may have been representing herself as Mrs. Unsworth (whether or not Mr. Unsworth was around). So in that case, if Dorothy died in infancy, her death would very likely have been registered as Unsworth. "Mrs. Unsworth" wasn't going to go and register the death of her child under a different surname and thus blow her cover.

This is by no means meant to say that this *is* what happened, but it is one possible sequence of events. Get the death certificate! and then you should know for sure who at least one parent of the deceased Dorothy Unsworth was.

(I have the death certificate for a 16-yr-old who died in 1896, and it names her father. Fake name, of course, it being that family of mine, although he was probably the only one who knew that by then. If I could only figure out who the total stranger who reported the death and called herself "grandmother" was ...)

Name: Joseph Paget
Year of Registration: 1914
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Mother's Maiden Name: Ribchester
District: Bolton
County: Greater Manchester, Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 687 (click to see others on page)


View Image

Name: Joseph Paget
Estimated birth year: abt 1914
Year of Registration: 1914
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 0
District: Bolton
County: Greater Manchester, Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 393 (click to see others on page)


View Image

Name: Elizabeth U Paget
Mother's Maiden Surname: Ribchester
Date of Registration: Jan Feb Mar 1917
Registration district: Bury
Registration county: Lancashire
Volume Number: 8c
Page Number: 818 (click to see others on page)


View Image

Are you guys saying you can't trace the Paget line back from Joseph father of George et al.?


1881 in Shropshire:

Joseph Paget 23 - born: Lilleshall, Shropshire, stone miner
Elizabeth Paget 24 - born: Wrockwardine, Shropshire
Samuel Paget 5
Alfred Paget
Civil parish: Wrockwardine
Registration district: Wellington

Marriages Dec 1877
Paget Joseph Wellington, Sh. 6a 1557
Rowley Elizabeth Wellington, Sh. 6a 1557


1871

Benjamin Paget 43 - born: Wrockwardine, Shropshire, England
Elizabeth Paget 49
Mary Edge 24
Martha Edge 18
Thomas Paget 23
Hannah Paget 15
Joseph Paget 13
Elizabeth Paget 5
William J Edge 10 months
Honora Hayward 87 - lodger
Civil parish: Lilleshall
Registration district: Newport

Marriages Jun 1860
EDGE Elizabeth Newport Sh 6a 1439
PAGET Benjamin Newport Sth 6a 1439


1861

Benjamin Pagitt 34
Elizabeth Pagitt 40
Mary Pagitt 15
Richard Pagitt 13
Martha Pagitt 8
Thomas Pagitt 14
George Pagitt 12
Hanah Pagitt 5
Joseph Pagitt 4

Civil parish: Lilleshall
Registration district: Newport


I'm sure you have all that! So it's pre-civil registration you're going for?


Presumably Benjamin is the one in Wrockwardine in 1851 with parents Benjamin and Rebecca? Danged variations in DOB. There are two in 1841 in Wrockwardine ...

So now we have the Paget-Ribchester births posted three times! I just never understand this. I posted them, and the marriage, for info in my third post, then mgnv did, now Ellen has ...

Taylor - I only did a free 1911 search, but they're the only ones around that look like they'ld wed in 1912 Bolton.
If it were my mob, I'ld want confirmation via dad's names from the m.cert.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure the earlier censuses are of the 1911 individuals.

There are a whole mess of feasible marrs of an Eliz Unsworth in Wigan/Leigh - hardly a world away from Bolton.

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
Baptisms: 13 May 1914 St Thomas, Dixon Green, Farnworth, Lancashire, England
Joseph Paget - Child of George Paget & Agnes
Born: 30 Mar 1914
Abode: 7 Short St.
Occupation: Side Piecer
Baptised by: A. J. Phillips
Register: Baptisms 1911 - 1921, Page 25, Entry 218
Source: Microfilm of register at Manchester Library

Baptisms: 21 Jul 1915 St Thomas, Dixon Green, Farnworth, Lancashire, England
George Paget - Child of George Paget & Agnes
Born: 10 Jun 1915
Abode: 7 Short St.
Occupation: Spinner
Baptised by: A. J. Phillips
Register: Baptisms 1911 - 1921, Page 36, Entry 320
Source: Microfilm of register at Manchester Library

Marriage: 23 Dec 1939 St Thomas, Dixon Green, Farnworth, Lancashire, England
[details pm'ed to Taylor (and Gavin)]

Burial: 4 Dec 1942 St James, New Bury, Farnworth, Lancashire, England
Louisa Alice Ann Padgett -
Age: 71
Abode: 162 Plodder Lane Farnworth
Buried by: W. H. Townsend Vicar
Register: Burials 1939 - 1952, Page 29, Entry 225
Source: Microfilm of register at Manchester Library

Burial: 27 Dec 1951 St Saviour, Ringley, Lancashire, England
Fred Paget -
Died: 23 Dec 1951
Age: 56 years
Abode: 39 St Kilda Avenue Kearsley
Buried by: W. B. Hodgkin Vicar of Prestolee
Register: Burials 1914 - 1960, Page 266, Entry 2128
Source: LDS Film 2356549

I am not finding a death or a marriage under those names

Burial: 5 Dec 1933 St Saviour, Ringley, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Paget -
Died: 1 Dec 1933
Age: 76 years
Abode: 34 Seddon Lane Prestolee
Buried by: Wm. R. J. Higgitt
Register: Burials 1914 - 1960, Page 153, Entry 1220
Source: LDS Film 2356549