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Oh well! I looked for WPs with birthplace Dawlish/Devon ... but of course the 1841 doesn't give a birthplace! So on a general census search (i.e. not year by year), he didn't come up. That'll teach me.

Well done, Marion. You don't need us! But hey, if anyone comes around looking for *that* William Plant, they'll have a pleasant surprise. ;)

I did go to the South African national archives site for a look. A couple of weeks ago, someone dredged up a two-year-old thread about South African research, which was a huge stroke of luck for me. I went to the archives and made an amazing discovery of my own -- a 1907 letter in their possession from the son of my gr-grfather's sister I've been trying to track down for two years. Yesterday, an office there said they would mail me a copy!

Now, his surname was (he thought) McCock, so that was a bit of an easy search. I tried John Plant, and of course there's the same problem with "Plant" as there is with my Hills -- you want a person named Plant, and it wants to give you plants, or in my case hills. So I'm just going to pass the site along and you can give it a bit more of a try.

http://www.national.archives.gov.za/index.htm

The site seems more complicated than it really is.

Click on this heading:

"National Automated Archival Information Retrieval System (NAAIRS)"

Of course you're supposed to read all the info first. But basically, you can click "Search" on that page ... oh crap, I'm getting a "sign on error, try again later" message. Well, give it a try. When it gives you a choice of what to search, just find the one that says something about all records, click there, and start searching.

There's always the phone book.

http://phonebook.yellowpages.co.za/

(It's actually white pages -- residential searches.)

It shows 33 Plants in SA at present. Send 'em letters. ;)

Good luck!

Marion, So there is a William plant born in Devon 1830, so it looks like he could be the RN man who went to Canada and back........., at least wev`e exhausted all possibilities on your Deptford william Plant, so south Africa with his brother may be a strong possibility...... when, you get to the bottom of all this{ notice I said when and not if} please post the details and let us know......i get as intrigued by other peoples family history as I do my own....... good luck with it all.

Nicky

Ladies just wanted to keep you posted. My geography on England at times leaves me puzzled as to areas and so on but I found this entry for 1841 Devon. I dont know if its that Dawlish place LOL or if its the same William Plant but I just wanted to share my findings. Bye Ladiesxxxx


1841 England Census
about Willm Plant
Name: Willm Plant
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Gender: Male
Where born: Devon, England

Civil Parish: St Paul
Hundred: Exeter City
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Exeter
Sub-registration district: St David
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Beedle 15
Mark Helmore 20
Adela Maynard 10
Edwd Maynard 13
Jno Plant 13
Willm Plant 11


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Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 267; Book: 11; Civil Parish: St Paul; County: Devon; Enumeration District: 3; Folio: 5; Page: 4; Line: 12; GSU roll: 241331.

Hello Girls,
Well what can I say. You have both been so very busy helping me and I thankyou. The marriage found for the area of Lewisham sounds possitive. Nicky you were right yesterday with your findings and I am sorry if I doubted you. Not so much doubted but expected to see them living in Deptford not Dawlish or Canada. All this info I am passing on to another family member who is researching this branch of the Family Tree with me. It does need some attention but looks possitve. As for John I think he must have stayed in Africa not Dawlish.LOL

Ladies A BIG THANKYOU TO YOU BOTHXXXXX


Marion

Well he obviously stayed in devonport heres the death entry:


Deaths Mar 1902 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Plant William 71 Devonport 5b 269


So we must either come to the conclusion that this "the" William who always gives a wrong birthplace, or this is a totally different William Plant, and the one Marion is searching for did maybe go to South Africa, which is why we can`t find him, at least we know this Devon couple were the ones who got married in Lewisham, with Samuel Dyer {wifes maiden name} on the census living with them in 1891, still not convinced this isn`t Marions William, if she agrees she could always send for the marriage cert to see if Fathers name matches . Oh I do hate these ones that you can`t tie up the loose ends ,don`t you?


Nicky

And ... William Plant born 1830 in Dawlish exists in 1891 and 1901 ... but not before that. And no, none born in Kent in later censuses.

Mutual exclusivity often suggests identity. ;)

It was the case for my infamous Hill/Monck brother and sister. Up to about 1873-1875, there are an Ernest Augustus Hill and an Ada Lennox Monck Hill. From 1875, there are an Ernest Augustus Monck and an Ada Lennox Monck. I say they're the same people (which I started saying even before learning Ada Hill's middle names).

Picking a Devon birthplace for censuses when one lived in Devon might just have been common sense! Or he might have been saying a smaller place name in Kent that resembled Dawliesh, and gave up?

In any event, they're certainly the ones who were in Canada, and in Stoke Damerel before that.

I can't find a soupçon of a Plant from Kent that looks like any of these ones in 1851 or 61 to save my life. Plaut is the obvious possible mistranscription; nope. No John no-name with mother Matilda finds anyone who looks like. Etc. Maybe the whole lot of them went to South Africa!

Kathryn, Yes Dawlish does seem a bit to specific, unless of course Deptford spoken with a west country accent sounds like Dawlish? lol ....though if that was the same couple married in Lewisham, why would you move from devon to lewisham to marry and then back again? I could find no William Plant born c1830 in Kent in 1881 ,does one show up in the other years?

Nicky

And here's the rest of the family unit back in England in 1891:


Name: William Plant
Age: 61
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Dawlish, Devon, England

Occupation: Retired Chief Boats'n RN

Civil Parish: Stoke Damerel
Ecclesiastical parish: Stoke Damerel
Town: Devonport
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Registration district: Stoke Damerel
Sub-registration district: Stoke Damerel
ED, institution, or vessel: 6

Samuel Dyck 53
(it says Dyer; "Pensioner RN (stoker)")
C S Plant 8
F H Plant 18 (i.e. Frederick)
G H Plant 11 (i.e. George)
Mary Ann Plant 51
William Plant 61


"Dawlish" seems a little specific to be a birthplace of convenience (as people tended to get vague / adopt their place of residence as place of birth as censuses went on). So maybe these people are herrings after all!

He's also in England in 1891, just to be complete:


Name: William J C Plant
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Adelene B
Gender: Male
Where born: Devonport, Devon, England

Civil Parish: Stoke Damerel
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Registration district: Stoke Damerel
Sub-registration district: Tamar
ED, institution, or vessel: 7

Adelene B Plant 30
Bessie Plant 27
Ernest C Plant 1
Florence W Plant 2
Francis C Plant 2
William J C Plant 28

I can't find any of that family in Canada in 1901. Looks like it was a temporary posting. In 1901, son William JC Plant, the easiest to find, was back in England:


Name: William J C Plant
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Adelene B
Gender: Male
Where born: Devonport, Devon, England

Civil Parish: Devonport
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Registration district: Devonport
Sub-registration district: Tamar
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 53

Adelene B Plant 40
Ernest C Plant 11
Florence W Plant 12
William J C Plant 38

This ones getting intresting Kathryn.....will have to wait and see what Marion thinks...I`ve been looking again today for willliams brother John but can find no trace.....if the marriage in South Africa is him, then maybe they settled there. I`m sure Devonport is a Naval Base and Pembrokeshire not sure ,but it is a coastal county..........your take on the Lewisham marriage is another possibility........the mystery deepens.

Nicky

Or a twist on what Nicky said -- "do you not think William may have married a local girl while stationed in devonport, and she remained there while he travelled the world with the Royal Navy" -- the couple married in Kent and the family settled in Devon where William was stationed? --

Marriages Dec 1859
>> Dyer Mary Ann Lewisham 1d 939
Elston James Lewisham 1d 939
Piddington Sarah Lewisham 1d 939
>> Plant William Lewisham 1d 939
Todd Hannah Lewisham 1d 939


For info, Mary A Plant in 1871 is "boatswain's wife", and the neighbourhood is populated by active and retired RN personnel.

No Nicky I,m not offended in any way. I value all the help the Genes members give me so no please I appreicate your help. Yes what you say for William could be possible. Most of my Mothers Ancestors were Royal Artillery so Royal Navy..Maybe?. The other siblings for William and John did settle in Deptford/Sydenham/Greenwich so I suppose I expected William and John to be in that area also.

Sylvia thankyou I am well. It could be as you have stated mistranscribed with the spelling of the surname. Happens all the time to me and its always my Mothers side of the family. Just to point out some of my Plants were R/Artillery.

Back later ladies just to see if you have found anything. Nicky it will be your bedtime. Sleep tight.

Marionx

Marion, Please don`t think I`m out of order here, but do you not think William may have married a local girl while stationed in devonport, and she remained there while he travelled the world with the Royal Navy { I presume RN is Royal Navy} eventually ending up in Nova Scotia Canada, and is Pembrokeshire not on the coast? maybe he was stationed there for a while, sorry I know this is your family history not mine, but as you have already said you have no trace of William after he left his parents home........ I just think you shouldn`t discount them because of the Devon connection . Hope you don`t think I`m poking my nose in, but if it were my lot i think I`d be taking a closer look at it all,

Hope you didn`t mind me saying this and that I hav`nt offended you


Nicky

OK, so here is what is probably John's birth registration from freebmd

Greenwich is the registration centre that includes Deptford


Births Jun 1842 (>99%)

Plant John Henry Greenwich 5 200



sylvia

Hi Marion

Hope you are well.


I've looked and looked, tried every which way, but I can't pull up an John with a William and/or Matilda on the 1851 Census.


strange .... there must be a great mis-transcription, or soemthing!



sylvia

Sylvia just coppied this down for you from my notes re John.


John Henry Plant
Male


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 27 APR 1842 St Paul, Deptford, Kent, England

Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: William Francis Plant Family
Mother: Matilda Plant

Thanks Claire but from what you have stated about being born in Devon it cant be them. I do appreciate your help.

Regards Marion

Marion the 1871 family were born in Devon apart from Ernest & Amelia who were born in Pembrokeshire

Marion, I belive the passenger lists on Findmypast or whichever site it is begin from 1870, you may be able to find this family from Devon in 1871 ,which may give you more info, if you ask for a look up .


Nicky

I should have added that the 1881 in Canada they are in Halifax., Nova scotia.