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Hi mgnv

Thanks, will use the *s when allowed.

Judy

Might Ellison be spelled Elison? If so, try searching for El*n unless that's not allowed - then try both Eli*n and Ell*n

Hello Kathryn, Sylvia, Ivy and everyone

Thank you!

Looks like Ellen, Ag. Lab '41 and servant '51 would be our most likely and is likely the same person. Also, the most consistent thing in all the censuses is that her age always ended with a zero. I wonder if she can be found and is still working in 1861?

On the birth cert. the parents are John and Ellen Jones formerly Ellison. Basically the same on Owen's (2nd & Cdn.)marriage cert. Don't know anything about the first marriage, except that wife and child were lost due to childbirth.

Owen is essentially lost to me between the 1881 census and 1910 - his 2nd marriage.

A marriage cert. between Ellen and John would help to answer so many questions.

Excited about the interesting prospect of a Lloyd & Jones marriage but on free BMD could not find an Ellison & Lloyd marriage to back that up. There was only one in that time frame and the Lloyd was female. Doesn't mean one doesn't exist though.

Henry L. On free BMD, Birkenhead, between Mar '62 and Dec. '64 there is no Henry L. There are four Henrys. Wirral there are two Henrys. I've applied for all four from the B'Head, Using Ellison and Jones as qualifiers. Negative result. Applied for and received the most likely two, with no qualifiers, and neither parent matched. Will apply for the remaining two B'head and if necessary the two from Wirral.

If I've missed any of your questions please ask again. This connection is so slow I'm going to submit before I get booted off.

Judy

Hi Kathryn

That was a good idea looking for ell*n ............... having recently had ellin in another family!


this just feels like a needle in a haystack ............. I'm not sure why I feel so blind with this ellen!

Hey Sylvia -- but the thing about the Ellen in Northwich in 1841 is that she wasn't born in county. ;) It looks like she and the other Ellison are staying at an inn. Age 15 for both of them looks pretty rounded. So all in all I thought I'd throw her into the pot!

The awful thing to contemplate is that even with this number of possiiblities, one could be missing who knows how many others because of Ancestry's vicissitudes ...

I did try searching 1841 for just surname ell*n in Ashton Under Lyne, but nobody else interesting turned up.

Hi Sylvia,

Just logging off - brain not in gear at mo

Hi Judy,

Did the birth certificate name Jones, Ellison and Lloyd? (Just seen that Henry b 1863 ish is Henry L Jones on the census).

There is a marriage in 1864 where Ellen Lloyd and John Jones are named on the same page:

Marriages Jun 1864
Hughes Jane Liverpool 8b 131
Jones John Liverpool 8b 131
Lloyd Ellen Liverpool 8b 131
MARLEY John Liverpool 8b 131

Now you're in the area I know .... I grew up in Oldham north of Manchester, have a relation in Ashton, worked in Northwich, and went to uni in Liverpool!!!


Ashton-u-Lyne varies from being in Lancashire and in Cheshire depending on the census ..... and seemingly on the census taker. My s-i-l lives in modern-day Ashton, and it is close to Manchester


Runcorn is closer to Liverpool than Manchester


Northwich is too far from Manchester to enter the equation ..... I used to teach there! It is actually within about 15 miles of Chester


I note the registration district for St Michael on Wyre is Garstang ...... that's pretty close to Liverpool.

Sefton usually is Sefton Park, which is Liverpool


sylvia

Ashton under Lyne surely looks the better bet

There is indeed one in Cheshire who might be of interest, and I was going to get around to. ;)


Name: Ellen Ellison
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Gender: Female
Where born: Cheshire, England

Civil Parish: Runcorn
Hundred: Bucklow
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Registration district: Runcorn
Sub-registration district: Runcorn

Ellen Ellison 8
Jane Ellison 35
Sarah Ellison 2
Thomas Ellison 40 - Labourer
William Ellison 5


And also:


Name: Ellen Ellison
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Gender: Female
(not born in county)
Civil Parish: Over
Hundred: Eddisbury (First Division)
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Registration district: Northwich
Sub-registration district: Over

Ann Albert 50
Charles Albert 15
Elizabeth Albert 50
Joseph Albert 50
Richard Albert 15
William Albert 60
Martha Basant 40
Ellen Ellison 15 - Ind (I think)
James Ellison 15 - Game Keeper
Samuel Nixson 30
Martha Offin 20
Mary Seddon 20

Actual head of household appears to be Innkeeper, others are servants and presumably guests.

It might also be worth looking in Cheshire - the Genuki map link for Ashton u Lyne shows the river marking the boundary between the two counties.

1830 Ellen in Wigan in 1841:


Name: Ellen Ellison
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Gender: Female
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Wigan
Hundred: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Wigan
Sub-registration district: Wigan

Ann Ellison 30
Ann Ellison 15
Ellen Ellison 11
James Ellison 15
Mary Ellison 13
Richard Ellison 40 - Weaver
William Ellison 15

Here's the 1831 Ellen in 1841 (I was just in a bit of a rush last night ... should still be ...)


Name: Ellen Ellison
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Gender: Female
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: St Michael On Wyre
Hundred: Amounderness
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Garstang
Sub-registration district: St Michael

Ellen Bradley 3
Henery Bradley 11
Jain Bradley 39
James Bradley 2 Mo
John Bradley 9
Richard Bradley 5
William Bradley 40 - Farmer
William Bradley 7
Ellen Ellison 10 - Ag Lab


She is the only Ellison in St Michael On Wyre.

Thank you.

MGNV - Ashton under Lyne on two of four censues, Ashton on one. The fourth contains too many errors.

Julie - which would you suggest?

Judy

St Michael on Wyre is furthest from Manchester. Its across the river Wyre, north of Fleetwood

When you talk about Ashton, is that Ashton under Lyme (just E of Manchester) or Ashton in Makerfield (just S of Wigan)?

Hello Kathryn and Sylvia

Thanks again and how I wish we were sitting together with a cup of coffee, I could entertain you with stories about the frustrations provided by this lot! You likely have your own to share

The 1871 census is a joke. Fortunately I have been able to buy Owen's b.cert. which shows him being born at the same address. The names are correct. Note the Father is years older here.

Both John (apparently) and Owen (definately) were born in N. Wales. A large area containing the County of Denbighshire and more.

Since Ellen's age is mostly consistent and St. Michael on Wyre is nearer to Manchester as is Ashton u L, I think the first one on the list is the best bet. According to Genuki the page for 1841 is PRO HO107/501. 1851 PRO HO107/2270. 1861 PRO RG9/3152. 1871 PRO GR10/4226. Hope this makes it easier.

Wigan or Bolton Le Moors would be the next two but I think less likely. Sephton, now Sefton no, but if they mean Sefton Park which is in W. Derby then possibly as that area seems to recur. All of these places are more closely related to Liverpool than to Manchester.

This might help you with your searches if you have a fast connection: When checking locations I get Genuki up on another page and just alternate pages using their gazeteer to locate the places I am looking for. It is fast and detail or distances are available, if needed.

Thank you again, you have me thinking in a new location with St. Michael on Wyre.

Judy

Judy -- there's a bit of a plethora of possible Ellens in 1841. These are top of the list for Lancashire -- rather than me looking them all up at google maps to see whether they're likely possibles, do you want to pick which one(s) you think would be and we can get you the details?


Ellen Ellison abt 1831 Lancashire, England St Michael On Wyre, Lancashire

Ellen Ellison abt 1830 Lancashire, England Liverpool, Lancashire

Ellen Ellison abt 1830 Lancashire, England Ormskirk, Lancashire

Ellen Ellison abt 1830 Lancashire, England Sephton, Lancashire

Ellen Ellison abt 1830 Lancashire, England Wigan, Lancashire

Ellen Ellison abt 1833 Lancashire, England Bolton Le Moors, Lancashire

Ellen Ellison abt 1829 Lancashire, England Liverpool, Lancashire

Ellen Ellison abt 1829 Lancashire, England Wigan, Lancashire

Ellen Ellison abt 1828 Lancashire, England Childwall, Lancashire

Ellen Ellison abt 1828 Lancashire, England Wigan, Lancashire

Ellen Ellison abt 1835 Lancashire, England Blackburn, Lancashire

Thanks for picking up my slack there, Sylvia!

I couldn't find that 1871 household for love nor money, for some reason, so I didn't see the Wales birthplace.

I'd put that down to ditto syndrome, and if the head of household was born here, well so was everybody else.

It was the later censuses I'd seen with the Lancashire birthplace. So we came at it from opposite directions. ;)

And in 1881 Ellen, Elizabeth and Henry are all born in Lancashire, while John and Owen are down as born in North Wales.

In 1891 Ellen is born in Ashton, Lancashire (same place as noted on the 1881), while John is born in Denbighshire.

In 1901, she's also down as born in Ashton (but this time it has been moved into Cheshire!!), and Henry as born in Birkenhead, same place as in 1881.


These guys can'r decide where they were born!!!


Although, if you have the right people, it looks as though Ellen finally decided she had been born in Ashton!



sylvia

from the earlier thread.... 'cos I find it esaier to do this than keep referring back!!

Hello
John Jones c. 1833, born North wales.
1871 census married farmer, 3 children, living at Tynyffrith, Llanfair Talhaiarn, North Wales.
1881 census, family as above, at 10 Falstaff, Kirkdale, Lancashire, railway porter.
1891 at The Shop, Barton, Cheshire, railway porter, and wife Ellen grocer.
1901 Ellen (nee Ellison) is a widow living with +- 38 year old son Henry (Harry), still in Barton.
Children were Henry c. 1863, Elizabeth c. 1865, Owen Feb. 1869
At least some members of this family also used the surname Lloyd-Jones.
Most grateful for any info.
Judy

- - - -

For reference purposes

1871 Census

Name: Ellen Jones
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Llanfair Talhaiarn, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Garthewin and Llanfair
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales

Registration district: St Asaph
Sub-registration district: Abergele
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 46
Household Members: Name Age
Elizth Ann Jones 4
Ellen Jones 40
Henry Jones 8
John Jones 48
Owen Jones 2

everyone born Llanfair Talhaiarn



I wonder if the 1851 Ellen Ellison really is this one?? Mistaking a Welsh woman for one born in Lancashire is a bit of a stretch!! Even the master of the house would note the different accent!!


sylvia