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Just to add to the timespan between children. I have a brother and sister on my OH's tree. Brother was born January 5th 1920 and sister was born December 30 1920. I think it's fairly unusual but it did happen.

Jill

Got another one for you.


Kate Margaret Millet
Birth: 27 DEC 1877 , Galway, Ireland
Father: James Millet
Mother: Mary Jane Owens Millet
Batch No.: C007777


Odd that it's a birth and not a christening, but it seems to be an extracted record.

I searched the IGI by father James Millett, mother Mary, born Ireland 1885 +/- 10 years. That seems to be the lot.

Just to add to timespans... my ex hubby is only 8 months older than his brother !!!

Seems ex MIL caught fairly early and second son was 8 weeks prem....

So it's incredibly possible....

Wasn't there a lady last year who was pregnant with 2 children and there was about 8 weeks between them, same womb and all....

Hey Kathryn

Long time no see, how the devil are you??

Ok, can someone quickly update me as to what we need now? I have read it twice and there are soo many directions... which bit are we concentrating on?

Tracey :)

Hello all!

Thanks for the look ups. You know the time I sat at the computer, was about five minutes after you had posted a reply tonight Kathryn! isnt it weird. Sure its telepathy....anyway back to the Irish!

James could have been married to who you put down, because on his marriage cert he was widowed. Maybe his wife Catherine died and he met Mary Jane Owen? that's a thought.

The familysearch.org I looked up Margaret Millett and found nothing but went onto I.G.I. typed in the batch no provided and up came Kate Margaret Millett born 27/12/1877 Galway Ireland.
So now I have another of their children!

The frustrating thing about familysearch is when you look at the parents and the word children at the side of their names and you click on the child, it is only the one child and never the whole family, almost like they only had one child.

When I looked at the bit about him probably being on a vessel it said master at Arms....and the words "on a vessel rather than in the arm"..? what does that mean?

On the bit about Pseudonyms, I put and there again he pops up etc...I meant on the Army Attestation papers for John Bernard Millett - I dare not even go there at the thought of all that stuff about being called another name in the work one does. Can you imagine it? I do know that on the Army Attestation papers for James son, John Bernard Millett (born 1875) , it says he was in the Connaught rangers for 7 years. This would have meant he was near Roscommon in Ireland, and thats why two of his children were born there. Fighting for England and being in the English Army may have made him enemies,so thats why I guess he went under the other name Fitzsimmons...even that gets spelt weirdly through the papers as Fitzsimons, Fitzimons, Fitzsimmons etc.

Another thought that travels through my mind is the fact James Millett (1836) called his son John Bernard, and then John Bernard(1875) called his son John Bernard (1900)...this Bernard continuation could mean the surname of his mother perhaps...why repeat the name Bernard I wonder?

On the page 'Army Births and Baptisms' on findmypast.com, there is a litst of all the Milletts born, with John Bernard 1900, Chatham 20th Regiment etc...how come there is no mention of John Bernard (1875) born Devizes on there also, ie to his father John Senior...all this can mean is that John Bernard (1875) must have been born outside the Army then.? Who are the other regiments besides the 20th on the list, called Milletts,? could they be John Bernard(1875) siblings? so you see I am staring and staring again, and then going blank in my mind. sorry to have confused you all, members, please bear with me, I have tried to munch Japanese Rice crackers and cashew nuts and three satsumas and still I feel hungry and my eyes feel like lead. Does anyone on this site ever walk around the next day with a tired head...perhaps its not good to stay on the site too long, perhaps its like chocolate cake, one slice only and enough!

"James could have been married to who you put down, because on his marriage cert he was widowed. Maybe his wife Catherine died and he met Mary Jane Owen? that's a thought."

That's the thought I was having. ;)

He's a James Millett from Ireland born in 1836 who was in the army and was married, in 1861.

He sounds a lot like the James Millett who was a widower in 1874 who married Mary Jane Owen.

Don't see a marriage for a James Millett + Catherine in the IGI though -- there is one for a James Mylot, but that seems to be a separate surname.


"... 'on a vessel rather than in the arm'..? what does that mean?"

Well, what it was supposed to *say* was "rather than in the army". Make more sense? ;)

I.e. he was in the navy, whereas the 1861 one was in the army. I think that's sorted though, since there was a James Millett born 1835ish in Hampshire in other censuses. I was just thinking that since the 1861 JM was in the army in Hampshire, he could have been the 1871 JM recorded as born in Hampshire. But I think not.

I sometimes like to leave the red herrings in the thread anyway, just in case someone else might get the same idea and spend time pursuing it to the same dead end.

"how come there is no mention of John Bernard (1875) born Devizes on there also, ie to his father John Senior"

Whoa -- the father of John Bernard (1875) was James, wasn't he?

I think the answer would be that at that point the father was no longer in the military. He was in Wiltshire where he married, and then working at the asylum, right?

I don't have access to findmypast records, so I'm no help with the rest of that.

The census image for the James Millett I found in 1861 (born 1836 Ireland, wife Catherine), on the first page for that book or whatever it's called, identifies the regiment he was in, but I can't quite tell what it says.

The first person on the list seems to be identified as

Lieut Colonel Com'g

(commanding?) and then

2/25 Regt

It probably wouldn't be too hard to find out what regiment was in ... oh, here we are, it's right on Ancestry's label for the census image:

Surrey - Aldershot - District Her Majestys 25th Regiment, the Kings own Borderers

I really would think it a very good theory that this Sgt. James Millet, born 1836 in Ireland, in the 25th Regt and married to Catherine in the 1861 census, is your man.

Since he's not to be seen in 1871, as far as I can find, one might think that Catherine then died in Ireland, sometime before 1874. ... Of course, it's always possible he just left her there ...

Tired head, all the time. Not so much from this stuff -- I find it's great exercise but doesn't wear ya out. ;)

Today, a tired wrist. All the years, nay, decades, I've spent at keyboards, never a carpal tunnel syndrome, not planning to start now!

Oh you have tickled me with your humour Kathryn! ha! tired wrist...at the keyboard! me too....I absolutoly love typing and could type and talk believe it or not very rapidly. By the way, when one requests info or help and members send in their findings, why is it always done so neatly in columns? is it a special programe that helpers get to help other members given them especially by Genes Reunited...each time a length of writing comes back neatly saying Name, Age, Estimated birth and it looks as though it is a special presentation...I think its great, because once you print off a reply, you can highlight the necessary particulars like age, and region etc....marvelous!

I have looked a lot tonight and no doubt you and other members also have been searching, I do know he is bound to pop up clear in front of me one day. But for now, thank you, all of you searchers on Genes Reunited,....go make a cuppa now and help someone else, I will go to bed and read a book on workhouses now, to cheer myself up! goodnight everyone and again my thanks from Regina.

The colums are copied from the Ancestry individual census record pages. (I always block-delete the bumph about disability status etc, for easier reading.)

Or, for BMDs, from the Ancestry pages with the FreeBMD info from the GRO. Also available at FreeBMD, but copying it from Ancestry instead makes the info clearer.

(Ancestry BMDs are free to search, btw, for the early records (i.e. not post-1984) even for non-subscribers.)

So no, nothing we're doing special. ;)

Wouldn't it be nice, though, if we could use html here and do that highlighting right in the posts? I do that at a family history society board I sometimes hang out at: boldface the names, e.g., so you can see at a glance what it's all about.


For Tracey!

Children John Bernard Millett reg Q1 1900, twins reg Q4 1902.

They were children of John Bernard Millett born 1875, son of James Millett and Mary Jane Owen.

James Millett was 38 years old and a widower when he married Mary Jane Owen in 1874 in Wiltshire. (Mary Jane was reg in Devizes, Q1 1851).

James and Mary Jane then had two children in Wiltshire, 1875 and 1876, in the GRO, and two more children in Galway, in the IGI. That we know of.

James Millett's father, per 1874 marriage certificate, was John.

Regina -- you haven't said yet what John's occupation was stated as on James's marriage certificate.

My theory is that James (who married in 1874, father of John Bernard 1875) was the James Millett in the 1861 census, in the army in Aldershot, born in Ireland, married to Catherine -- Catherine having subsequently died and James having then married Mary Jane Owen.

They could be completely different and unrelated people. But the age and the Irish connection make it look pretty good.

I would bet that in 1871, that James was in Ireland, or off soldiering somewhere. I don't see a Catherine Millett in the 1871 either, or a death for her in England.

No birth or marriage for James in the IGI, either.

So Regina looks to be left searching in Ireland, perhaps Galway, and that's where I get off the bus!

Look whom I might have found in 1901:


Name: James Millett
Age: 58
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: All Souls and St Bartholomew
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

>>> Occupation: Labourer Blind Asylum
Condition as to Marriage: Widower

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: Dale Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 481


Age is off, but those things happen over the censuses. It was the occupation that struck me.


... but probably nah. In 1891, that one's a widowed brush maker in Liverpool living alone, and ours would have had kids young enough to still be at home.

... and in 1881 he was a brush maker married to Maria, in Liverpool, so just another red herring.

hi Kathryn!..the bus hasn't driven off yet has it?...because you never know about the Asylum in 1901 and James as a labourer there - or in the 1881 census married to Maria (could be Mary abbreviated?) He may have worked in the Asylum because his wife and children had left him or his children never lived long enough, perhaps died after a day or two? The red herring I will hold on to just in case - but thank you for all your hard work Kathryn.

I understand that I forgot to put down John Senior the one without a date of birth, his occupation? well on James Marriage cert. it says

Weaver Of Cloth.

Why oh why does it have to be only the site '1901Census.com' that allows people to search an address?! can you imagine if we knew an address and searched it on findmypast and ancestry.com - we wouldn't have to reply just on the answer from one site alone.

Also, I find it is out of my league to be able to afford the subscription on Ancestry.co.uk to link to other Public Member Trees, so I have a whopping tree, with little green leaves wiggling away, and when I click on them it says 'One member who links with your person' and the sheer teeth gnashing at not being able to link or view them is awful!

There! had my moan now.....one day I will be rich, especially if I go 'busking'!

The help I have recieved here on this site has been irreplacable, so will "not look a gift horse in the mouth" who needs those sites anyway! ha!

I have addresses for John Bernard (1875) in Devizes, and for James in 1874 all in the Devizes, and have had lovely pictures sent me by a member who knew the houses he lived in. I am blessed really Kathryn. I keep thinking about the Asylum in 1901, and hope he wasnt a blind labourer at the blind asylum, but that would be awful wouldnt it? you know, if he lost his sight due to the war or something.

The only Milletts appear to be brush makers or Shoe makers in Somerset and the Cornwall ones, all appear to have different siblings so I will continue hunting and look to the children for a while and see if they married or whatever.

The only other question I wanted to ask people was the middle name 'Bernard'

I wonder why it was used twice and if it could be a surname to the woman who may have married a Millett in the beginning?

The 1901 James at the blind asylum -- you're right, he's listed as blind 2 years in the disability column. But I really don't think he's yours; but ... he could be the one in the military in Aldershot in 1861.

The brushmaker (who could also be the sergeant), later married to Maria, seems likely to be the James living with parents Bridget and Martin in 1851.

But if that were the case, he would likely have married that Catherine in England, and there's no record.

... Oh look. Guess I didn't actually search before:


Marriages Jun 1858
Allen William Plymouth 5b 448
>> Davies Catherine Plymouth 5b 448
>> Davis Catherine Plymouth 5b 448
>> Millett James Plymouth 5b 448
Spurway Louisa Caroline Plymouth 5b 448

You'll have to check the image to see which spelling is correct -- or just order the cert under James Millett's name, the best option.

Okay, I checked it; it's DAVIES.

A marriage in Plymouth matches with him being in the military.

That will tell you whether the Sgt James Millett in the 1861 census is your James, hopefully -- if the fathers' names/occupations match.


Here is an interesting Catherine Davies in 1851:

Name: Catherine Davies
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Michael
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: Warrington
Town: Warrington
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Warrington
Sub-registration district: Warrington
ED, institution, or vessel: 1f
Household schedule number: 5

Mary Monagan 38
Michael Monagan 23 - farm labourer
William Davies 16 - rope maker
John Davies 14 - ditto
Catherine Davies 12 - ditto
-- children of Mary

Warrington was full of cotton workers, many of whom were Irish. James's father John could have been deceased by the time censuses were taken.

There are various Milletts through the English censuses who were born in Ireland, but no obvious connection to yours, unfortunately.

Here's an interesting household in 1861, though:

Name: Mary Millet
Age: 62
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1799
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: Blackburn
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Condition as to marriage: Widow

Registration district: Blackburn
Sub-registration district: Blackburn
ED, institution, or vessel: 40
Household schedule number: 179

Julia Egan 20 (boarder)
Alice Millet 23
Ellen Millet 20
Mary Millet 62
Mary Millet 17

All of the Millets were cotton factory workers.


The "Bernard" -- it could be a maternal surname getting carried down, it could just be one John Bernard naming a son after himself. ;)

Kathryn!

How did you manage that! to find the Davies!? I cant get over the sheer determination to get a solution and it looks so possible doesnt it? I am going to take this as 'the one' I really am....I am going to order the certificate for her and James and see what the name of his father will be.

I really dont know if James did come from Ireland. He may like John Bernard have been stationed there when he had his children, but maybe John Senior was?
I have even thought perhaps James came from India or something, but I guess unless I learn the History of the War crusade throughout the hundred years, one doesnt know. I know John Bernard fought in the first world war because I have found his attestation papers.

As for James, he would have been too old by then so would have fought in the Crimean perhaps (hope not got the battle mixed up with Waterloo...really showing my ignorance now....) another thing I have noticed, through reading my book is the amount of people who ended up their days in the 'Workhouse' Kathryn. Can you imagine ending your days in a place like that. So I have some searching to partake in.

Will defenitely let you know if there are any breakthroughs in the next few days to put your mind at rest! I will add a thread by clicking your name on this one, and hope the message gets to you. Watch this space! Lots of thanks and best wishes to all,,,,,,,,,Regina

To get the message through -- anytime you want to make sure someone who has posted in one of your threads, just add to it!

Anybody who's a regular here knows about using "My Threads" -- the link over on the left of the board. First thing you do when visiting is click on that link, to see whether there have beena ny updates in threads you've posted in. So just add the info here when you get it, and that will keep it all together for handy reference.

True enough about not actually being from Ireland -- I in particular may have been going about this backwards. His familiy may have been from England and him later posted in Ireland, John Bernard that is.

But then the James married to Catherine was born in Ireland, per the 1861 census. (I'm wondering whether the Ireland birth for Catherine might just be ditto syndrome.) But yes, as you say, John the Ist could have been stationed there.

But if John the Ist was a cotton weaver, there's a good chance he was Irish in Lancashire.

I actually did search at www.fibis.org for any James Millett records in India, but nothing relevant-looking came up.

There's this:

Military records > Medal rolls : The Indian Mutiny Medal Roll (British Forces) 1857-1859.
Given Names(s) John
Surname Millett
Rank Private
Regiment or Ship 3rd Madras Fusiliers

But that would be a little late for John, father of James 1836, to have been in the military.

You never know -- could be a brother of James, older and named after the father (and/or grandfather ...).

An old one:

Ecclesiastical records > Marriages > Bombay Marriages : Index of Ecclesiastical returns
Presidency of Marriage Bombay
Marriage Year 1756
Husband First Names John
Husband Surname Millett
Wife First Names Mary
Wife Surname Aspang

Re finding that Millett-Davies marriage -- before 1911, you can't tell who married whom, but FreeBMD will search by two names for marriages.

So I searched for

marriage
surname Millet*
given name James
spouse's surname (left blank)
spouse's given name Catherine

I think I said 1855 to 1862, just to cover the bases. And that's the one that came up -- theonly GRO page that had a James Millett and a Catherine on it.


Absolute dogged determination does pay off sometimes! It also takes you down some garden paths, other times ...

Thanks Kathryn,

been lovely sharing my problems and having an unbiased eye and ear from someone. You give me a big 'poser' anytime and I will hunt Africa for you if thats what it takes, just to show how I am very much like a 'dog with a bone' when it comes to mysteries.....Agatha Christie was born on my Birthday I think, well in September, and she wrote the Mouse Trap and that lasted 30 years...if I was to write my stories of searching for needles in Haystacks, I'd have a best seller! and no doubt you too would!...bye for now., Regina! Thanks to all the others looking and helping on these pages of my requests!

Kathryn if your'e out there still or if you come back tomorrow for a glance after seeing this thread -

I have put something on my threads called 'Pseudonyms' meaning another name being used ie. in the Army etc...

Well I do think Catherine Davies is James Milletts first wife,and was just about to fold things up and go to bed as beginning to lose my breath through forgetting to breathe...do you do this? concentrating so much on the screen and forgetting to enhale....!

Anyway, went back to the surname I believe could be the one for John Millett and its 'Fitzsimons' on the army attestation papers, for John Millett, but a John Millett born 1865...nothing to do with John Bernard (1875)

Under john millett (1865) he has his name on his papers crossed out and the words 'Alias Alexander Fitzsimons'!

Why has this anything to do with the Milletts I am looking for?....well I think this could be James and Catherine's child, before John Bernard came along?

On the papers it says Fathers Name 'James' Mothers name Catherine and brother ...well it looks to me like 'Lewis' but it may be a Louis or James cant really decipher it as tired.

His wife is a Mary, a mary Varquez and they married in Gibralter. He was eventually after fighting in Egypt and South Africa discharged to Lichfield cause of Discharge, Time expired, as he had served 17 years in the Army.

Am I well off the mark here and going into deep waters even considering it Kathryn? am going to bed now as 2.07am and up early tomorrow, but before I go I also have a view of a

Catherine Mallett (millett?) on the 1871 census on Ancestry.co.uk

She is from Galway and she was born in 1833 (seems near to James birthday doesnt it?) trouble is they have her husband as a William Millett(1802) which is nothing to do with a John or a James, but he happens to be 38 years older! well I ask you!! surely this must be a mistake, anyway when I click something it shoots me to a page saying 'Correction of names' and a public member saying contact him as alternate name etc..

Well I cant as not subscribed but this William was 'born at sea' so perhaps this was James' father John William or something, but another strange coincidence seeing we have found something to do with James/Catherine.

Well going to bed now I must! but these are two things I will peruse closely defenitely over the next few days Kathryn!

Goodnight! Regina

I keep not knowing what you mean when you say:

I have put something on my threads called 'Pseudonyms' meaning another name being used ie. in the Army etc..."

Your threads? Do you just mean in your own records?

Catherine and William Millett 1871 -- the name on the actual census record (the image itself and Ancestry's transcription) is Mallett. An Ancestry user corrected it. As is the usual case, the user didn't specify whether s/he is related to the household (I *always* do!). Presumably s/he knows something about the family somehow. The ages are as you saw, on the original image, and it does say Catherine is wife.

This looks like the birth of daughter Julia in that household:

Name: Julia Millett
Year of Registration: 1852
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Hayfield
County: Cheshire, Derbyshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 565

-- you could always order another certificate and see what it says!

Can't see any of them anywhere in 1861.

Since Millett appears to be this Catherine's married name by marriage to William Millett, one would think it isn't her. It's always possible that "wife" is an error, and she was really daughter-in-law or some such, but that still would be wrong for "your" Catherine.


Me, I can't forget to exhale. I smoke. ;)

Hi Kathryn,

Not putting my head round this tonight, going to bed....just thought I would let you know I have been looking for James and John Millett and you know we both agreed on James Millett (1836) marrying a Catherine Davies in June 1858?

Well looked on familysearch.org at the I.G.I. and noticed this

John Millett - Marriage 16.10.1838

St. John The Baptist's Bristol, Gloucester, England,
Batch No: 1040741 father = John Millett

Wonder what you think this might mean? does it mean James 20 years later married a cousin?...oh well off to bed Kathryn, not felt too good today as sat with baby today and she was full of energy, plus the little jack russell and now exhausted, ah! nite nite for tonight, Regina

What that might mean ... it's a John Millett marrying in Bristol, whose father was John Millett. Any reason to think he's connected with yours?

Oh, I see. The part you left out:

Spouse: Catharine Davies
Marriage: 16 OCT 1838 St John Baptist'S, Bristol, Gloucester, England

Huh.

Now, that's a submitted record. I might not rely too heavily on it.

In fact, it reminds me of a submitted record in my own family, where the silly twit who submitted it has one of my male ancestors married to his mother.

There was a series of Berry Rushton-s, two of whom in a row married women named Frances. So she just merged two generations and had Berry the younger marrying Frances his mother, rather than Frances his wife (whose name was pretty certainly really Tryphoena, but that's another tale!).

I wonder whether something similar might have happened here, is where I'm going.

Or, as you say, a cousin of some sort.


I wonder whether this is that couple in 1851:

Name: John Millett
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1808
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Catherine
Gender: Male
>> Where born: Frampton, Gloucestershire, England
Occupation: permit under Inland Revenue, I think

Name: Catherine Millett
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Goodleigh, Devon, England

Civil Parish: St Pancras
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Pancras
Sub-registration district: Regents Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household schedule number: 225

Catherine Millett 40
John Millett 43


Oh duh -- the marriage is post-1837. Look it up at FreeBMD! John Millett and Catherine Davies are on the same page in Bristol in 1838, but only the marriage cert would say for sure!

It would also say whether that John was a widower, which would be interesting to know.


Catherine Davies isn't going to be an unusual name. There were a dozen born in Liverpool 1837-1847 alone.

Hello Kathryn!

Gosh you had me giggling on the Tryphoena bit...ha ha! that was one sure error wasnt it...so I know for sure, familysearch.org can be full of mis-transcriptions etc. just dont like it when it happens to me thats all! want everything to be perfect like me?! ha ha!

oops! forgot to tell you who John married, was too fuzzy headed to put the woman down ha! oh well, if I forget other things you'll have to forgive me, it comes with this vaccuous head I have, (think its blood pressure again) so I said to myself, go to bed and chill. But didnt, and couldn't....sleeping is not my drift, I would rather start painting or scrubbing skirting boards, think it's something called St. Vitas dance or insomnia Regina ismus!

Feel a bit perkier this morning, still flat broke, so will have to wait day or two before I order the cert but order I will, and then the dreaded seven to ten day wait - wish they could just put all the certs on line for us to download! then there really would be identity theft wouldnt there, never mind credit fraud world-wide.

Must get round to reading the long pages I printed off (thanks for the info on how to print off) as long as it hasnt come to (sod off!) I know I have a chance with this search, as long as I dont drive you to distraction, and leave you time to get on with your family search...poor thing, surely you must have one humungous tree by now, with branches galore? and you know, that surname you mentioned Barnard, I havent closed my eyes to that either, because it would be ever so comical If we ended up with a little link in the base of the trunk of your tree!

will get in touch as soon as I can regarding the searching. Meanwhile thanks for replying Kathryn, bye for now and until later! Regina

thanks diddydoris

will try the INIS recommended! Regina