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Hi:

I have found Eliza (1849-1888) married Edward Massom- so if Eliza died in 1888, that is why little Eliza (b. 1887) would be with her Granny .... sorted.

Thanks so much.

Margaret.

Hi Athena:

Yes, that would be the one .... no wonder it took some finding with the wrong spelling of Widdowson .... so well done for finding that.

You can take siesta now, your work here is done ;;;}}}

Thanks again, Margaret.

Hi - isn't this the marriage:

Name: Samuel Withison
Year of Registration: 1874
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Hull (1854 Onw)
County: Yorkshire - East Riding, Humberside
Volume: 9d
Page: 384 (


Others on page:

Margaret Dickinson 1874 Apr-May-Jun Hull (1854 Onw) Yorkshire - East Riding, Humberside

George Frankish 1874 Apr-May-Jun Hull (1854 Onw) Yorkshire - East Riding, Humberside

Ellen Mundy 1874 Apr-May-Jun Hull (1854 Onw) Yorkshire - East Riding, Humberside

Samuel Withison 1874 Apr-May-Jun Hull (1854 Onw) Yorkshire - East Riding, Humberside


Athena

Hi Sylvia (in Canada)

I think you are onto something here .... will follow it up and let you know.

Thanks everso.

Margaret (in Canada) ;}

Hi margaret

I've just read through this thread ... and was curious about Eliza

Here she is in 1891, already being cared for by grandparent Mary Ann

Name: Eliza Massam
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation: Granddaughter
Father's Name: John 99%)

BAXTER George Nottingham 7b 664
WIDDOWSON Florence Nottingham 7b 664


and Claude could be the reason Flora was with grandma:--

1901 Census

Name: Florrie Baxter
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: George
Gender: Female
Where born: Carlton, Nottinghamshire, England

Civil Parish: Nottingham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England

Registration district: Nottingham
Sub registration district: Nottingham South East
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 191
Household Members: Name Age
Claude Baxter 3 months b.ca 1901, Nottingham
Florrie Baxter 23
George Baxter 26 b.ca 1875, Lincolnshire, Carriage Finisher
May Baxter 2 b.ca 1889, Nottingham

Address:- 7 Hampden Place, Nottingham

- - - -

I couldn't find a Massam/Widdowson marriage, but here is Eliza's birth registration. If you order this certificate, it will tell you the names of her parents, and her mother's maiden name, which would help solve the question of who she is!

Births Dec 1886 (>99%)

Massam Eliza Hull 9d 267



sylvia

Hi Sue:

One thing I have learned since starting the tree ... there were lots of Widdowsons in the Nottingham area and only a few Christian names .... Samuel being a favourite by the number of times it crops up.

I suppose they are all related somehow.

Thanks for your help and your continued interest.

Take care.

Margaret.

Ah right.

It's surprising what you can dig up.

That makes sense.

Where do the other Samuel and Agnes fit in? The 1881 seemed to show them living at the same time as your Samuel and Margaret so they were obviously a different couple.

I wonder if the two Samuels were some sort of cousin?

All interesting.

Best wishes
Sue

1891 59 Colliers St,Holy Trinity,Hull
Samuel Widdowson Head 40 Fish buyer b Nottingham
Margaret Widdowson Wife 34 b Hull
Samuel Widdowson Son 14 Bobbin carrier in flax mill
Margaret Widdowson Daur 6 Scholar
Thomas Widdowson Son 11 Scholar
Ruth Widdowson Daur 4
Alice Widdowson Daur 1
All children born Hull

1901 30 Wassard St,Holy Trinity,Hull
Mary Ann Widdowson Head 73 b Nottingham
Samuel Widdowson Son Married51 Docl Labouer b Nottingham
Eliza Massam Gdaur 14 b Hull
Ruth Widdowson Gdaur 14 b Hull

1901 79 Canning St Holy Trinity & Sy Mary,Hull
Margaret Widdowson Head 44
Thomas Widdowson Son 21 Fish Merchant
Margaret Widdowson Daur 16 Warper in Flax mill
Alice Widdowson Daur12
John Dickinson Boarder 50 Lab in Iron foundry
Gertrude Dickinson Boarder 16 Domestic servant
All born Hull.

Hi Sue:

I asked someone (Mary) to help with this and here is what she found ..... it seems Margaret and Samuel split up and he went home to live with his Mum Mary Ann .... she lived to be 90 plus. Not sure who Eliza Massam is, but not a name known to me in our family.

So there we have it .... the end of the story.

Thanks for your help and interest. Margaret.

The Hull/Yorkshire accent would make the name Widdowson sound like : Widdison, Widdinson, Widson, so lots of variety.

They did come from Canning St. - remember Dad talking about that - I will follow this up and get back to you.

Bye for now .... and thanks for all you do.

Margaret.

I still can't find a marriage for any Samuel Widd..........any ending to a Margaret Dickenson/Dickinson so there may yet be a scandal or it may be an area not covered by the indexes yet.

Good Luck

Sue

OK - I will do that and let you know how it all turns out .... so cheers for now and thanks again for your help and interest.

Margaret

If you go to Find My Past
http://www.findmypast.com
you can pay as you go and search the 1891 if you wish or you can ask someone on here for help with Ancestry.

I'd be interested to know what you find

Sue

We need the family/families on the 1891 census. Perhaps someone on Ancestry could do a search?

I haven't enough credits on Find My Past at the moment.

I wonder if the Samuel who married Agnes is nothing to do with yours but the two coincidentally were sons of a George. That would account for the mother Mary Ann for the one who married Agnes but she wouldn't be your ancestor.

Sue

Yes it does .... I am impressed with your research skills.....thanks everso.

In the next census there would be the rest of the children likely .....

Bit disappointed to find out Samuel was not a dashing blade who kept a harem.

Margaret.

Not marriages for Widdinson.........I think the enumerator spelled it strangely.

This makes it look as if there are two Samuels again

Sue

OOOOOH I think you have it .... the Widdinson is a mis-spelling but all of those names match - and they are from Hull.

So Samuel and Agnes came from Basford .... our lot came from Notts too but they were fishermen, mariners, etc. so came to Hull.

Well done Sue .... I guess they were married after all.....Dad would be pleased!!

Wow....Margaret.

I think you had the wrong family!

I think now that your lot might in earlier times have been called Widdinson (probably variant of Widdowson or mistranscribed).

Sue

Oooh think I may have uncovered something

1881 census

Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Saml. WIDDINSON Head M Male 30 Nottingham, Nottingham, England Fish Merchant
Margaret WIDDINSON Wife M Female 26 Hull, York, England
Hannah WIDDINSON Daur U Female 7 Hull, York, England Scholar
Samuel WIDDINSON Son U Male 5 Hull, York, England Scholar
Thomas WIDDINSON Son U Male 2 Hull, York, England


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 45 Canning St
Census Place Kingston-upon-Hull, York, England
Family History Library Film 1342152
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 4769 / 47
Page Number 11

and

Household Record 1881 British Census

Search results | Download Previous Household Next Household


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Samuel WIDDOWSON Head M Male 29 Eastwood, Nottingham, England Bricklayers Labourer
Agnes WIDDOWSON Wife M Female 26 Basford, Nottingham, England Hose Mender
George WIDDOWSON Son Male 3 Basford, Nottingham, England


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling High St 9 Stirland Row
Census Place Basford, Nottingham, England
Family History Library Film 1341794
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3328 / 92
Page Number 21

Not sure about this.

I checked deaths and there are a number of Samuels.

If Agnes had a son Samuel when was he born? What proof have you or has someone assumed from a census? Could there be only one Samuel in that generation?

I think I'm getting my Samuels confused LOL

Sue

First of all you need to check deaths.

The earlier Samuel may have died.

It wasn't uncommon for people to use the same name for several children if earlier ones died.

If Margaret had her own children then perhaps she had one of the same name.

You need to sort it out by looking at census records and by buying birth certificates.

But check deaths first............I'll have a quick look.

Sue