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GGG Grandmother Elizabeth McDonald born in Ireland (poss place called Belgaer) c1870 how can i trace her birth cert. Also her parents Marraige they were John McDonald and Mary Irvine. Any help would be much appreciated.

Shelma very few of us touch Ireland so if you don't get a reply, try posting on Inis's thread which is on page 2 at the moment

Thanks Claire still new to this game.

Hey, Shelma! It's always worth taking a first kick at the IGI to see what it might turn up.

http://www.familysearch.org
click "advanced search"
click "international genealogy index"

search for
Elizabeth McDonald
father john
mother mary
birth 1870 +/- 5 years

-- is what I did.

Here's a freebie for you, just to show you what's there if you're new enough not to have seen these yet.


ELIZABETH MCDONNELL
Birth: 17 AUG 1871 , Antrim, Ireland
Father: JOHN MCDONNELL
Mother: MARY IRWIN
Batch No.: C012366


Those names are all just off -- but all so very similar. You might want to consider her. (How do you know the names you have?)

The batch number starting with a C means this is an actual extracted record, taken from parish records and accurate barring human error in the transcribing. You can click on the batch number and search within it for siblings. There aren't any. You can search for the parents' marriage. I don't see one.

That's exhausted my Irish know-how. ;)

Hi Shelma

Here's what is probably the marriage for the John and Mary which Kathryn found above
MCDONNELL, John Age: 20
Wife: Mary IRVINE Age: 23
Marriage Date: 8 Apr 1867 Recorded in: Co., Antrim, Ireland
Collection: Civil Registration
Husband's Father: James MCDONNELL
Wife's Father: John IRVINE
Source: FHL Film 101509 Dates: 1867 - 1867

It's looking closer!

Wot a team, eh?

Even if you do spell your name funny. ;)

I like a challenge:-p

Thanks alot to both Kathryn/Katherine's for your help.My original info comes from eliz marraige cert (1890 Helensburgh Scotland) to my ggg granfather James Donachie.She is definately down as McDonald and was 19yrs old.The reason I know she was born in Ireland is the 1901 census has her born in Belgaer.She died in 1911 at 39yrs in Helensburgh.

Shelma ... newbie ...

Do I understand you're rejecting what Katherine and I found because the surname is spelled "McDonell"?

You are a newbie. ;)

Those might well not be your people ... but they might well be them. A change in spelling between Ireland and Scotland, for people who may well not have been literate and who didn't have the local church registers to rely on for spelling once they moved from home and were relying on local officials where they were now living, would hardly be a unique event.


As far as I can tell, there's no such place as "Belgaer". You're relying on Ancestry's transcription of the 1901 census. Ah, newbie! In 1901, Ancestry has transcribed my MONCK ancestors as MORICK ... and their children as MARK.

I believe you can see originals of the Scottish censuses at

http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

-- register for free, pay to buy credits to see images.

"Belgaer" might turn out to be Belfast, or any number of other things.

Actually, I see that Belfast is in County Antrim:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/
~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyAntrim.htm#PageTitle

-- where the birth and marriage Katherine and I found took place -- so I'd bet that's exactly what the 1901 census does say.

At this point, if these were my ancestors, I'd be working on the theory that the birth and marriage in question are them. It might be wrong, but odds seem to be in its favour at the moment.

Shelma, I have to agree with Kathryn, some of the transcription errors I have found on Ancestry make my hair curl.
You should never discount anything until you have prove positive that it is wrong.
My great great grandfather came to England from Co Mayo and his name was Ansbro and in the 1881 census he is down as Ainsbrough, but it is him as he was living with his in laws.
Angela

No I don't doubt you at all sorry if I offended you.It's the first time have used this way of communicating and was a bit nervous of even trying it. I should know better as the name Donachie I refer to has at least 10 different spellings that I have found so far. I will look at the census on Scotlands People and let you know how I get on. Can you offer any advice on how to trace when Elizabeth came to Scotland? Your time and help is greatly appreciated I can assure you.
Thanks again Shelma

Don't pay out for any more Donachie marriages, Sam has already got them!

Not offended, Shelma. Amused. ;)

I'm the master of wild theories -- and yours here isn't even wild. It's my own bunch who initiated me into the world of You Aren't Who You Think You Are. Not only are my Moncks mistranscribed everywhere they appear ... the first Mr. Monck was no Monck at all, and was born a Hill. It was coincidence piling on coincidence that generated the theory and then just kept on confirming it. If you're interested, a short version is here:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1032158
(with a link to a longer version)

-- just to get a taste of the kind of step by tiny step slogging these things sometimes take.


So hey, we aleady exhausted my Irish know-how! As I understand it, trying to find out the exact details of Ireland to Scotland or England migration is a pretty hopeless cause. All one can do is find records at both ends and try to pin down an approx time. Any trace of other family in the Scottish or English censuses, for example?

Again, somebody else may have something more intelligent to say on this than I. ;)

Hi Kathryn

I have looked at 1901 census and guess what you're right it is a very badly written Belfast.Looked again at IGI and found a brother for Elizabeth
Henry McDonnell b1867 Belfast Antrim
parents John McDonnell and Mary Irwin Batch No C701322.
Also a sister Hannah McDonald b1874 Renfrew in Scotland parents John McDonald &Mary Irvine C115641. I got Hannahs birth on Scotlands People.On that it gave parents marraige 23 April 1867(think we can allow them a few days) in guess where Belfast.Father also signed his name with an x as you said. On Eliz marraige cert Hannah was a witness further proof we have correct people.So I presume they came to Scotland between 1871-1874.
Where did other Katherine find marraige IGI? if it was am I doing something wrong as I can't seem to find it. Another question if you don't mind me asking, if I want to carry on tracing this family back should I stick to IGI? Shelma

Hi Claire
Yes Shelma and myself are both researching the same tree on the Donachie's with so many ways of spelling it, but i dont have all the certs at the mo and what i do have i have already posted to Shelma and via
hi Shelma you really got your teeth in this lot havent you

Samantha x

Shelma! Isn't that amazing for one days' work??

Katherine has access to some secret source I don't know about I'm afraid. I'm sure she'll tell. I couldn't see a marriage on the IGI.

For tracing the family, like farther back? Search around the boards here for advice on Irish genealogy. Google IRISH GENEALOGY. Just don't ask me. ;) I've found a grx4 grfather, I think it is, shown in an early census as born in "Ireland". I have no plans to try to find that one at the moment... if you run into a Hugh Morrison on your travels, let me know, though.

You also get to trace the brother and sister forward now. That could be a little easier. The IGI generally won't be much use for those kinds of dates; you'll want the censuses and BMD registers.

You can try the IGI for tracing back further. Luck of the draw there!

Check the link I gave you with "hugh wallis" in it. It's the batch numbers for parishes in Co Antrim -- it will tell you what's in the IGI (and by default, what isn't).

Yes it is I'm so glad plucked up the courage to have a go!
Tried to have a look this site 'hughwallis' but so much on it can't find what I'm supposed to.When I get on where do I go from there?
Ahh newbies I hear you say!
Just want to thank you again for replying to me and giving up your time to help.
Cheers Shelma

For Hugh Wallis's site -- you can start here:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htm#PageTitle

I split up the other URL because long things make threads unreadable. That one should be okay.

Have a read of the explanation, and then click

"(Click here to skip this stuff and go to the country selection menu)"

The select Ireland, if that's what you want.

Then select your county -- Antrim. You'll be where I first sent you.

Go down the page to Belfast. It lists the batch numbers for that place that are in the IGI, and what periods they cover. You'll see that the time period for your John+Mary marriage isn't covered. That's why you won't find it in the IGI.

You can click on any of the batch numbers and search within them. This is a wonderful facility because

- you can search in a specific place

- you can search by a given name or a surname alone, or by one parent's name, or by date without a name at all

- you can tell whether what you're looking for is likely to be in the IGI at all, by the dates and places

Hope that works now.

Kathryn
your a star came up trumphs again! many thanks for your patience and all the tips you have given me.

Shelma

And I should probably say "you're welcome" finally ... kept forgetting.

You're welcome. ;)