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Do you have an idea how or where to trace US records for the final brother.

David

Passenger lists leaving UK 1890-1960
Name: James GRAY
Date of departure: 26 February 1927
Port of departure: Glasgow
Destination port: New York
Destination country: USA
Date of Birth: 1909 (calculated from age)
Age: 18
Marital Status:
Sex: Male
Occupation: Labourer
Notes:
Passenger recorded on: Page 4 of 31
The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage: -
George GRAY
Jane GRAY
Phyllis GRAY
Robert GRAY
William GRAY
Williamina GRAY
Ship: CAMERONIA
Official Number: 144242
Master's name: Wm Gemmell
Steamship Line: Anchor
Where bound: New York, USA
Square feet: 19413
Registered tonnage: 9846
Passengers on voyage: 953

Last address - 53 Mondaunt St, Bridge??? (not sure of address).

Although other Grays travelled on the voyage James travelled alone.

Passenger lists leaving UK 1890-1960
Name: James GRAY
Date of departure: 21 September 1926
Port of departure: Southampton
Destination port: New York
Destination country: USA
Date of Birth: 1908 (calculated from age)
Age: 18
Marital Status:
Sex: Male
Occupation: Patternmaker
Notes:
Passenger recorded on: Page 6 of 32
Ship: LEVIATHAN
Official Number:
Master's name: Captain H Hartley
Steamship Line: United States Lines
Where bound: New York, USA
Square feet: 13862
Registered tonnage: 27696
Passengers on voyage: 854

Last address - 2 Dunedin Tee (?), Clydebank

Hi David

I keep being drawn to this death and wondered if Jennie was Mary J. It would certainly fit with the dob of your Nana. Deaths have to be registered within (I think) 5 days which would explain why the death is in the quarter before the birth.

Deaths Dec 1911 (>99%)
Gray Mary J 31 Sunderland 10a 831

Regards
LfW

Brenda,

Quite an amazing day. I have managed to make contact with my Nana's brothers family - the eldest brother Thomas.

The light they have shed is as follows:

Jane Wright died giving birth to my nana is the understanding they have. Thomas moved in with his grandmother before her death and then moved in with the Smith family breifly. They believe it was an uncle. Apparently he left soon after due to bad treatment ..that is consistent with the poor treatment I understand nana had.

One of the other brothers James -- moved to America ... it would amazing to trace him. William's history is unknown.

A family re-united in 48 hrs - amazing.

Thanks

Brenda, I cannot tell if it is the correct family.

Aunt Izy was of a similar age to my Grandmother - I met her myself when I was a child so she must have died in the early eighties - unforuntately I do not know her married name. She could not have been 20 yrs plus older than my grandmother so I do not think it is feasible.

If only they completed a census after 1901!

I think I will order Thomas & Jennie's marriage record from the registrar in Sunderland to try and build a picture on Jennie.

David

Brenda, wow - that's a great piece of work. Well done!

Selena

Good thinking - I am puzzled by the army records where he was put down as a widower though.

Amazingly through this thread I have made contact with her Brother Thomas's family. I have asked them to try and shed light on what happened to the family at the time of the Fathers death or before.

Once again thanks for all your help.

David

Could Jane's mother have remarried to a Mr Smith and Jane took her stepfather's surname?

Selena

Possibly another connection:

I noticed in the Army records that one of the witnesses at the wedding was E Young. I wonder if she went on to marry one of Thomas' brothers:

Births Dec 1913 (>99%)
Gray Jennie Young Sunderland 10a 1473

Deaths Jun 1915 (>99%)
Gray Jennie 1 Sunderland 10a 908

Brenda - can you see any death record of Jennie Gray nee Wright.

Amazing stuff. I am going to order a copy of her Birth Certificate. It is entirely plausible that this is the family living very close by to where she and my grandfather lived in Elswick St Sunderland.

They must have abandoned her to a local family. I wonder where or how the Smith link arose, was it a formal or informal adoption?. The only link I have is an Aunt "Izy" who I believe was an adopted sister who had the surname Smith. She Died 1980-1995 time in Sunderland -I rembember visiting as a child. My Father believes there is a link to the Roker/Fulwell area of Sunderland.

After that is is her husband Gerald Lamb - he was born in Easington I believe in 1909 - Died Sunderland 1981. I think the family on his side was from ireland - He was in the Royal Artillery.


Thanks for your help
David

Straws clutching at!!

Name: GRAY, Thomas James
Regiment, Corps etc.: Northumberland Fusiliers
Battalion etc.: 27th Battalion (Tyneside Irish).
Last name: Gray
First name(s): Thomas James
Initials: T J
Birthplace: Southwick, Durham
Enlisted: South Shields
Residence:
Rank: SERGT.
Number: 27/298
Date died: 25 March 1915
How died: Died
Theatre of war: France & Flanders
Supplementary Notes:

Could this be the parents marriage and explain why Jane was known as Jennie!?!

Marriages Mar 1904 (>99%)
Bell Anthony Sunderland 10a 899
Brown Mary Ellen Sunderland 10a 899
>>> Gray Thomas James Sunderland 10a 899
>>> Wright Jennie Sunderland 10a 899

I wonder if this is the right one:

Births Mar 1912 (>99%)
Gray Jane Wright Sunderland 10a 1584

A December birth could be registered in the next quarter.

Regards
LfW

I have just spoken to my dad who actually has the deathe certificate. It puts the date of death at 3rd Dec 1911 not 1917. Just checking a picture of the gravestone she was 94 when she died in late dec 2004 so 1911 should be correct. Place of Birth was Sunderland.

I think the death record on the website is innacurate,

The death certificate has the maiden name gray.

I think the marriage certificate may well be the most interesting.

Thanks for all your help.
David

Hi David

I would order the marriage certificate, it will hopefully explain the two surnames and perhaps give a more accurate age. As she's so young I doubt she was married before but it may tell you how she got both names. I've seen them with details such as 'name changed by deep poll', 'formerly' (usually previous marriage) and 'also known as'.

This site may also be useful to you.

http://www.sunderland.gov.uk/pages/registrars/

Regards
LfW

Thanks Brenda.

I think I am going to order a copy of the death certificate.

Will keep you posted. Unfortunately it really wasnt a family that talked so detail is completely missing. She had a tough life bless, my mum is quite certain she was adopted and treated a bit like a "scivvie" based on conversations she had wth her. My father was born in Nov 1933 so she was very very young but she was very well loved by my father.

She is buried with her daughter Annie who died only 3 months old in 1938. My dad did not even know of her existence even though he was 5 when she died and it must have been a traumatic time.

Many Thanks
David

Brenda,

Do you think it is possible that whoever adopted her had her registered?

Do you know any source for adoption records.

Thanks very much for your time.

David

Have you checked for corresponding entries for the other surnames?

Some children (depending on circumstances) can/will be registered twice under both names used by the mother..... so the Smith entry may well have a corresponding Gray entry.

Tracey